LOL by ScarletDude, Score -3.2
Actually, if you know anything about Warcraft history at all, you know that the Horde of today is NOT the Horde of Warcrafts I and II. While "The Horde" did, in fact, lose two wars, it was led by warchief Rend Blackhand for the first one and, if I recall correctly, Doomhammer for the second - not Thrall. Furthermore, the orcs were degenerated by the demonic blood infused into them by Monnoroth (sp) and were entirely under demonic control.
The state of the Horde as it was then simply cannot be compared to the Horde as it is now. In the first two wars, the Horde was defeated as much by infighting as it was by the Alliance - things like key members of the Shadow Council running off after Sargeras' body didn't help either. The Horde as it is now is much stronger; the clans are united, they are not on a demon's leash, and they have gotten back in touch with their true shamanistic power. Add to that their alliance with the Tauren and Forsaken, I'd say that the Horde of today really has nothing to do with the Horde of the previous two wars.
Furthermore, the Horde was the first one to answer Medivh's call to arms against the Scourge in the third war. And need I mention Arthas?
Finally, I would like to mention that it was the Night Elves who first invited the demons into Azeroth, and they were just slaughtered. If it weren't for Cenarius and Neltharion's intervention, it would all have been over thousands of years before either the Horde or Alliance existed. Also, there was a bit with a time-travelling mage with his dragon and orc buddies saving the world.
And I realize that night elves have their own version of the history, but according to the Troll history the Night Elves are the descendents of trolls who swore subservience to the Blood God Hakkar even before the War of the Ancients.
So there. :P
Edit: Grammatic error.
Actually, Arthas did a lot of stuff before he was under control of the Lich King. He completely sacked Stratholme when Uther, the uberest Alliance in existance at the time, told him not to. He then banished Uther from helping him. Then up in Northrend he betrayed his people by destroying the boats, and then betrayed his mercenaries that he hired to destroy the boats, and then he didn't listen to good old Muradin when he told him to not touch the sword and killed Muradin.
To begin with, my point was not necessarily that the Horde was better than the Alliance. While that is obviously my personal opinion, I have no real evidence to back it up with. My point was merely that the Horde of today really doesn't have any relation to the Horde that the alliance defeated in the first two wars.
On to your point. The Horde has, in fact, been decimated by the three wars. However, the Alliance equally so. Lordaeron and Arathor lie in ruins, King Terenas is dead and his son has joined the Scourge. The High Elves have abandoned the Alliance - in fact, they will be joining the Horde soon enough. The Horde suffered heavy losses while invading Azeroth I'll admit, but they caused heavy casualties as well.
Also, whether or not Thrall's intentions from freeing the orcs from demonic control had anything to do with power, he traded the power their broken pact with the demons granted them for the truer power that came from their shamanistic heritage.
Now, the Horde started out as invaders from Draenor. They had no real foothold in Azeroth. As of now, however, they have claimed territory on Kalimdor, and have rapidly expanded their holdings throughout central Kalimdor.
The Alliance, however, has been shrinking. The Alliance used to be in control of the entire eastern continent. Now, however, it has lost the northern half of the continent almost entirely - and the Forsaken have already claimed that which the Scourge abandoned. Blackrock Mountain is a festering pit of enemies to the Alliance.
Thus, we see that both the Horde and Alliance have taken heavy losses from the wars. However, they have been equal losses. And finally, while the Alliance has been shrinking in territory, the Horde has been growing. While this trend may or may not continue - something that would be difficult to call with the threat of the Qiraji, it is my personal opinion that the Alliance is on the decline and the Horde is rising.
(Note: what I said about the loss in numbers to both factions does not necessarily reflect server population in World of Warcraft, just the story and history.)
Edit: Forgot the bit about the shamans at first.
Uh... no. While the horde might claim sovigernty over more land, much of that land is disputed. Ex:the Scarlet Crusade in Tirisfal. In fact if you pay attention to the story line while leveling a bloodelf or especially a forsaken you will see that they are just using the horde alliance for thier immidiate convienience. It is likekly that if the Horde ever did mange to defeat the Alliance or recieved a crushing blow these factions would immidiatley break away, as did the forrest trolls at the end of the seccond war. While it is true that that Alliance lands are plauged by the bandits of the Defias, undead in duskwood ect. it seems as a rule they maintain more complete control over thier occupied lands. BTW in response to your 1st post the Night Elves DID NOT release the burning legion, it was The Highborne who later became your precious boodelves.
Actually, I never said that they were. I said that that was what the troll histories said. Obviously, the troll histories were written with a bit of bias.
Are night elves descended from trolls? The night elf race was formed so long ago that no hard evidence has surfaced to answer this question, although it has been asked many times. All that is known for certain is that a tribe of nocturnal humanoids came to live on the shores of the first Well of Eternity, and the Well's cosmic energies changed them into the night elves we know today.
Certainly many trolls do believe that the humanoids who developed into the night elf race were trolls. The theory does have some credibility, for there is at least a superficial physical resemblance between trolls and night elves. Furthermore, the troll race dominated much of ancient Kalimdor several millennia before the night elves came into power.
Nevertheless, many night elves find this theory preposterous and abhorrent. They are quick to point out that the first night elves began their rise to power by defeating a number of nearby troll tribes. As a consequence, the trolls came to fear and respect the might of their new rivals. The troll theory of night elf ancestry may have been a direct result of this early conflict. The trolls hated the night elves--a sentiment that persists to this day--and may have wished to marginalize the night elf race and its accomplishments. Also, attributing the night elf race with a troll heritage likely helped the trolls come to terms with their own shocking defeat.
straight from the world of warcraft encyclopedia so yes it is believed by some that night elfs are descended from trolls
link to the page where i found this info:
http://worldofwarcraft.com/info/encyclopedia/508.xml
The night elves fighting troll tribes makes no difference, look at real life history, humans have fought other nearby humans since our birth. If anything night elves are just one troll tribe that evolved differently, but their pride stops them ever believing they were once trolls.
But from the Night elves point, the troll just may be trying to heighten their status by claiming to be a sub-group of a race with a rich history (Not that their history of always fighting everything that comes close to them isn't enought of a rich history), both stories are bias from the source and only an elder race like the titans or old gods (If they ever cared enough to pay attention) would know the true history behind the two races.
Really I have nothing against the horde they helped defend the world and without them someone much worse would be in control. But you needed us to.
I believe in the truce which I don’t understand why it was broken although the person who broke the truce was in the alliance. The alliance helped to kill him and his forces and even though Thrall was there he only let Jaina leave but still went back to war with us. When we really could have just let him destroy you.
The only people i dont like are people like gizmoke. who have no real reason to hate the other side.
It's cool Wayn no need to feel bad for the comment, because it's hard to understand the minds that calls someone "The most sucky faction" when there are only 2 to play with....*wink*
ugh by demondruid, Score -0.71
Your not gonna get the alliance to say the horde is better, and you not gonna get the horde to say the alliance is better. So whats the point.
We control the same amount of territory, we many not control the northern part of our contient BUT NEITHER DO YOU.
We are equivalent powers and this will probably continue to be true for a long time to come.
you control the southern half of kalimdor the night elves control the northern half which is part of the alliance so we control the same amount of territory. You may say that there are very few cities up there so they dont really control it, but count the cities the horde has as many cities in the northern eastern kingdoms as the alliance has in northern kalimdor.
Night elves control northern Kalimdor - they have Teldrassil, Darkshore, and half of Ashenvale. Admittedly, there isn't MUCH of a difference in sheer territory, and in my opinion how much land a side owns isn't that big of an indicator. However, it is an indisputable fact that in recent history, the Alliance has lost territory, while the Horde has gained it.
anyone else notice that the horde(orcs trolls tauren) dont really like the undead seeming as all other races are friendly but not undead so also notice that they r a very recent truce which i dont think works out very well
That's because the forsaken stabbed their leader in the back to get to where they are, and it's hard to trust someone like that. Besides, they're undead and were once part of the scourge that killed them.
With the talks of the Horde graining territory, this all happened after the war against the Burning legion, It is true the Alliance have lost territory, it was lost to the Burning Legion and the Scourge (who at the time were minions of the Legion) In the wake of the shear lose of power that the alliance held, the new horde under Thrall was able to grow. But I feel people are forgetting that where both sides (though being the two of the strongest factions, the others being the scourge and the legion) are currently unable to control much territory which has lead to minor factions taking a hold of territory, but though the alliance are not the power it was before the third war it is regaining lost territory just as the new horde is growing.
Let's remember that only the Darkspear tribe of Trolls has allied itself with the Horde, and they are jungle trolls originally from Stranglethorn Vale, having come with Thrall to Durotar. The rest of the Troll tribes (with the exception of the Revantusk and the Zandalar) are hostile to Alliance, Horde, and all other Troll tribes, including the Darkspear tribe.
So one cannot really say that just because one tribe of Trolls has joined the Horde, that makes Night Elves squatters on Horde territory. The Horde may have a solid claim on the Darkspears' original lands in STV, but the Night Elves don't live there. One can't claim that land is rightfully yours on the basis that it was once held by a tribe who is your enemy.
Also, the Highborne Night Elves under Queen Azshara did in fact summon demons to Azeroth, but the entirety of the Night Elves as a race didn't do this. The Highborne were in the minority; the vast majority of Night Elves were unaware and uninvolved at first, then fought against the Highborne when they found out what Azshara was doing. The Highborne by this time already considered themselves apart from and superior to the rest of their race, obviously, because they were calling themselves the Highborne.
what does a freakin' Alliance Rep Uper have to do with Hunters?!?!?!
Uhm.. by Ethrin, Score -1.6
Yes, and we all know that Grom knew exactly what the tainted waters would do. Admittedly, an alliance leader might have shown more restraint than Grom in that situation. But then again, perhaps not... Tyrande was rather rash in her decision to ignore Furion's advice and slay her fellow night elves to release Illidan. Lord Garithos was perhaps a bit rash in his decision to try to eliminate the remnants of the high elves. Oh, and let's not forget Terenas's abject refusal to listen to Medivh, thus leading to his entire nation's destruction.
Everyone makes mistakes.
haha by hunterinsu, Score 0.00
It was a lightning that went from the sword and killed the dwarf cuz he was going to stop Arthas from getting the sword!!
Actually Arthas's greed did kill Muradin (apparently nobody reads names anymore) and furthermore it wasn't lightning that killed him it was a shard of ice thats was several meters across (thats what it looks like on my computer screen).
Just thought i would correct you.
And btw, HORDE RULES, FOR THE FORSAKEN!!!
No way by Knightoflovewar, Score 0.82
The warcraft storyline and lore has nothing to do with levels. The gnomes were not invaded by level 30 troggs, they were simply invaded by troggs.
The gnomes are also very helpful to the alliance. They built the Deeprun Tram that connects Ironforge with Stormwind.
The humans were not hateful towards the blood elves even though they screwed them over. The humans just hated orcs and the scourge. The gnomes were accepted to the alliance mainly because they are cousins to the dwarves and the king of Stormwind is missing. Magni Bronzebeard, Lord of Ironforge, is now in main control of the alliance.
Read the manual. Pages 174-175
I dunno. Arthas kicked Illidans butt pre-Lichification. I think he could take on Thrall. But are we talking Arthas(Paladin) or Arthas(Deathknight)?
sigh... by Operationcwal, Score 0.00
Shhh... dont let them know it's a game...
lol by denty, Score -0.71
Who said Dwarves were barely in WC3? WTF DO YOU MEAN??? THEY ARE LIKE THE 2 MAIN UNITS AND EVEN HAVE A HERO!
Rifleman-Best anti-air unit for humans
Gryphon-Best air unit for humans
Mountain King-Hero Killer (one of the best heros for humans)
wtf do you mean BARELY in wc3?
Dwarven Mortar Team = main siege (long range)
Siege Tank = other junk =D
dwarves are almost half the alliance...
life by dextry, Score 0.99 horde by firedrgon, Score 0.00 Wow... by wowupplrstupid, Score -8.8 haha by hunterinsu, Score 0.00
-.- by fcfcfcfc, Score 0.70 UGLY! by CairneBloodhoof, Score 0.99
Notice the Argent Dawn is made up of more than just one class type. Theres an undead in the dawn, and a troll controls the flight path to EPL. It's obvious that the classes of the NPC's are different as well.
The Argent Dawn is exactly what you claim only druids understand. An alliance against the scourge and demons of the burning crusade.
As a side note, I wouldnt be too surprised if the expansion allowed the alliance and horde to party together in certain areas. After all, the burning crusade wants to destroy all life... orcs, humans, elves of every variety...etc. Wouldnt it make sense that the two sides fight together. We may even be able to communicate with each other. After all, I dont think the Blood Elves would forget a language just because they switched their loyalties. And the Draenei lived on the same planet as the orcs for a long time. I'd be surprised if the new races dont have 'translation' as one of their racial abilities.
anyway, thats my two cents.
and? by EnforcerOfShadows, Score 0.00
I think perhaps Horde and Alliance may be able to communicate -- But, as some people have suggested, if Horde and Alliance get too friendly they won't want to kill each other in PvP and it would mess up WSG, AB and AV.
Oh yeah. btw, The caverns of time idea was really good, i probably agree on that one. =D ^^
Onto Horde & Alliance.
How the hell are you supposed to say which side is better? It entirely depends on who is behind that charactar, and which class that charactar is playing! For instance: I heard some1 say that in a duel between a level 60 Paladin and a Level 60 Shaman, both in he same kit, the Shaman would win. Pile of crap. What would happen is the Paladin got 3 crits? What would the shaman do then? You can't predict a duel until you take into account what luck either player might have.
Also it depends on how good a player the paladin is compared to the Shaman....
I prefer Alliance to Horde, not because horde are mean, or cause im some wannabe hero, its because i think Alliance has WAY nicer land and cooler cities..
dwarfs by precurser, Score 0.00 horde by precurser, Score 1.0 Sure by GrantSSchroeder, Score 0.99
Oh by GrantSSchroeder, Score 0.00
Dnd? by GrantSSchroeder, Score 0.55 read by the druid, Score 0.59 ummm by Xsunshyne, Score -0.95 noob by msftw, Score 0.00
When did they remove sun rock retreat and tarren mill?
Also, zomg you get 1k needles, stv (rebel camp is not a town, all they have are questgivers and lobie guards), swamp of sorrows, and badlands.
I almost put hinterlands on there since aerie peak isn't technically alliance, but I don't think they let horde in there anyway (is it possible to work your rep up to neutral?)
Listing real towns by the way, whoever is the one to start listing alliance town only contested zones, not a quest giver with a FP next to him/her.
Towns by PsychoMedic, Score -1.1
Well, technically, people who say that people who choose horde and people who choose alliance play differently obviously dont know that the SAME PERSON CAN MAKE BOTH ALLIANCE AND HORDE CHARACTERS.
P.S. The war where the Dwarves fought against each other was called The War of the Three Hammers
Im a Horde player but i can get along with the alliance (PvE server) and help them when they r being attacked by more monsters they cant handle, and lots of alliance help me too.
But at the same time soma alliance annoy the hell out of me.
P.S Do Crossroads need to be raided at least twice a day?! (Darkspear server)Im nearly always there to defend it :D
obviously not he just said he was on darkspear realm
Z0mg U guys towards the top need to get a life and PLAY WoW instead of living it...
And Another thing...
no-one cares if 'the alliance sucks' or
'the horde lost 2 wars'
I have characters from both factions because they both have things about them that make them rule.
Aliance and Horde are factions.. in a game... Who cares who wins teh wars or whatever.. IT'S A GAME!
Really, I don't see how one side losing a war or whatever makes them better or worse for playing. And in terms of morality, that depends entirely on your server. For example, I was just killed multiple times in Astranaar by a level 70 blood elf for absolutely no reason (which happens to me in various areas at least once every few days), while I personally never attack more than about 5 levels below me unless they attack first, and my experience with other Alliance players has shown the same result. I also play two Horde characters on a different server and rarely get attacked randomly by Alliance.
Apparently u haven't learned that WoW is a game to the guy above
I find all this argument kind of funny. Personally, I think Horde is in the right (despite the fact that I play Alliance charries) because they are just trying to survive. The Aliiance, on the other hand, wants the Horde all dead.
Whether or not Night Elves and Trolls are related is likely, but which came first is obviously the Trolls, because the NE were changed far too much by the Well of Eternity to have Trolls be their decendants.
Claims to land. Alliance controls Khaz Modan, most of Azeroth (with the exeption of the Swamp of Sorrows and Stranglethorn), and the north-western part of Kalmidor. Horde controls Tristfall Glades and the Blood Elf starting areas (not the Plaguelands, that's a no-man's land), as well as a great majority of Kalmidor. The rest is controlled by some faction or another that doesn't care whether a person is Horde or Alliance. So it's roughly equal, as there is a claim to both Alliance and Horde in almsot every zone.
In power, I think the two are still roughly equal, just in different ways. How else would they be stuck in this eternal stalemate?
And to whoever said the Night Elves unleashed the Burning Legion, I'd have to say they didn't. The Highborne, who later became the Blood Elves and naga, were the ones to unleash the Burning Legion in their quest for power. The elves that remained Night Elves had little to no knowledge of what was going on, and when they found out, they tried to stop it. Between the two types of Elves, they caused the Sundering. But the Night Elves were in the right there.
alexstrasza good alliance server for 2 posts above
all these people who say alliance players are all noobs, and immature, are full of crap. When i first got WoW, i was considering an undead char, and a nelf. I chose nelf only because i thought they LOOKED cooler. Once i started playing, i made some friends, and stayed alliance. Does that make me any more noobish, or immature than someone who made the opposite decision? If you say yes, than you need to question your own mental capacity, not mine. Thats my two cents, thank you.
stop wtf? stop saying horde is better than alliance. stop saying alliance is better than horde. it all depends on the person in front of the computer! stop fighting its just a game! theres times i think draenei are better than orcs. and orcs are wayy better than dwarves. but all in the end its just a game.
Im not sure what all of you are talking about, the horde losing two wars.
Warcraft 1 - The dark portal opens, because of Medivh, and all the Horde attack and destroyed Stormwind. If you Don't believe me, there is a lot of evidence showing that the Alliance lost the first war. The Stonemasons (The people who REBUILT Stormwind after the horde destroyed it.) Are pissed off at not getting enough money from Stormwind (Possibly connected to (Onyxia) Lady Katrana Prestor
Warcraft 1 recap - Fel Horde win.
Warcraft 2 - The horde make boats and go around to the Wetlands, (passing the dwarves/gnomes) and make alliances with the Ogres. They also make alliances with the Trolls (Dont know which tribes) because they hate the High Elves. ( 1 2)
The Lordaeron Humans, meanwhile, are recruiting the Dwarves, Gnomes, and High Elves (Blood Elves, Highborne, etc). Anyway, the Alliance win, due to them pushing them back to, and destroying, the dark portal.
Ambassador Kelemar says: Exercise caution during your stay. Some close-minded individuals may still cling to old alliances long since dissolved...
Tatai says: I be gettin' tired'a dis. Dese elves, day be treatin' me like I stole somet'in'.
Warcraft 2 recap - Lordaeron Alliance win.
Warcraft 3 - Thrall flees to Kalimdor. Arthas joins the scourge, and screws over both the Silvermoon High Elves and the Lordaeron Humans. Thrall arrives in Kalimdor, with Grom Hellscream. Arthas let loose the Legion, and Thrall and Grom work to kill ... one of the pit lords, forgot the name. And the New Horde, The Human Refugees (Theramore) and the Night Elves fight off the burning legion.
Warcraft 3 recap - Stalemate.
Edit: Added a little bit. Changed link from stonemasons to next piece in the chain.
well reguardless of weither alliance or horde is bigger both factions share a lot of common enemies the burining legion the scourge the blakc dragonflight and the dark iron dwarves the venture co. the naga the armies of C'Thun and the twilight cult the blood god hakkar so the fact that both factions still exist with all these threats is nothing less then a remarkable example of endurance
not to mention the betrayals of gul'dan athras kel'thuzard illidan kael'thas and a few more i cant remember
ow dammit
the horde is not better then alli
and alli ins not better then horde
(but horde has bad rep,orcs,trolls and tauren start neutral with the blood elfs and undead.but the undead and blood elfs are also neutral with the orcs,...)
GEAZE! you poeple know to much about world of warcraft...
i mean we all know that the horde and alliance are equal right now so shut up!god...
shhh... dont tell them it's a game.
in my opinion, alliance SUCKS. i have a 70 human pally and a 72 tauren warrior. I stopped with my ally char because of many reasons. here are a few:
BATTLEGROUNDS: in bgs, horde wins 98% of the time. i bg'ed almost every level with my alliance character and everybody dident know SHIT about anything. there were no knowlegable bg leaders. ( most of the time they just say to "just defend" which does absolutly nothing. I have used my ally alts to compare on different servers, and still, horde owns at every single bg except AV, which they win about 35% of the time. for the alliance, I have noticed that everybody in the bg's always never follows anybody, always try to be the hero (just attack whatever they see) and flat out suck at it. This makes honor or marks of honor farming take FOREVER.
PLAYERS- what I have experienced from playing alliance is that the players seem like total noobs. its like the horde players know how to play the game and half the alliance players don't have a clue what they are doing. I have experienced more "random flamers" on alliance. ex: you beat player in a duel and the person wont stop stalking you and flaming you. when you put them on ignore they still follow you around and make /rude spam on you. Also, i can tell many underage players play ally also. (I was once reported for saying damn twice in a group) Also if you go to SW, about 85% of the time you will see like 7 people dancing naked for 2g, which gets really gay after the 50th time you see it. You look at general chat, and there will be an anal spam contest.
Raids- this is just sad. allys fail here the most. it may be my server, since my high level was there, but still, the raids ALWAYS wiped. city raids were just an utter waste of time and PuGs were like the special olympics. Also, in like every group i've been in for a raid instance there is always one idiot who pulls 10-15 mobs and runs next to our group... sad...
OVERALL- alliance is well... it depends. if you want to pvp or get anywhere with the game, dont roll ally. if you want to get somewhere, win at bg's and pvp, get better groups and raids, and generaly have a better WoW experience, roll horde.
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