iam a lv 54 bal druid, and iam geared with all intel,(my intel is up oer 200) and i have a mana well of about 4800, but i never seem to be able to cast more then 5 spells and iam out of mana...
can any one tell me what gear would be better or what i need to do to get more mana......i have to sets of gear cloth and leather.

Fellwynn: Druid of the Draka server

You needed two of these?

Wrath doesnt cost that much to cast (less than frostbolt) so if you spam that you shouldnt go oom very fast. Just check out the mana cost of each spell and try to avoid spells that cost too much. Another way to kill is to entangle + insect swarm. It takes some time, but conserves your mana. xD

one of the best ways at your lvl to conserve mana is to try and balance your hp and mana. what i mean by this is to use your melee attack often enough that your mana and health drain the same. this is the most efficient way i found to solo at your level. in instances, try to use starfire/swarm more than wrath and moonfire, especially dont spam moonfire! if you do moonfire, try to make sure they dot will be able to do it's full duration because over half the spell is the dot and not the initial.

BEST WAY TO SAVE MANA ::


ENTANGLING ROOTS THEN INSECT SWARM AND STARFIRE AND WEN ROOTS IS ABOUT TO RUN OUT RECAST ALL OF THEM

I will chime in on this subject because i am a lvl 70 Moonkin With 8000 health unbuffed and 8000 mana unbuffed. I HAVE NO PROBLEM WITH MY MANA POOL!!! I have raided in many a kara, gruuls, and working on TK. I have been 1 or 2 on the damage meters almost everytime. The best way to help your mana is to cast wrath. Hit with moonfire and insect swarm and then wrath 3 times. Another good way to help your mana is to put some points in Intesity in the resto tree. With the new patch (2.3.0) It will increase your mana regen by up to 30% WHILE CASTING!!!!!! You add that with dreamstate and u my friend have a mana conserving GOD of a druid.


Lvl 70 NE druid
Shadowmoon
Codefreak

PS NE ARE THE KING BOOMKINS

I'm a level 50 Moonkin and I have better mana management than my daughter's level 50 fire mage.  As with any druid build, gear is key, balanced between INT and SPI.  With a little patience between kills I start almost every fight at full mana.

Starfire, root, moonfire, insect swarm, sit back and relax while the DOTs do their thing, then another starfire or perhaps a couple of wraths to finish the job just before roots wears off. 

Another comment on something that was mentioned earlier - you're right, Moonkin aren't very good solo PVP.  They aren't meant to be.  My Moonkin really shines when I'm out with my daughter's mage.  Between the two of us we crit enough that we're hardly ever touched by mobs.  And if we are, no biggie - I've got the armor to take a few hits and can always pop out of form and cast a few heals if necessary.  That kind of flexibility is the strength of a druid.

After reading all coments I will agree that it all depends on gear and what your casting.  If your moonfiring a mob to death you WILL go OOM in a blue blazing hurry but if you are casting (assuming of course your out side) the moonfire (once) roots, insect swarm, followed by a single starfire and a few wraiths you should be fine.  Repeat the cast chain as needed (Helps to have a few macros to help with the chain casts)

Additionally you can send in the treants (care should be given of course on the timing and location because they can oftenIf you negelect to watch where your casting find you a few new playmates to have fun with when you really don't need them) with a few dots and your mana will hold out.  I have been on long grinds and even taken on up to three mobs at once and came out with at least 25% of my maan remaining.  The best thing to do is watch what you cast, how you cast and above all make sure you hvae decent and up to date gear (that really goes for any class BTW).  Another thing to do is find a decent Feral AP staff for melee and equip it when OOM and melee the mob for a few (this works great if you have gear with lots of Stamina as well as intelect)enough to get some maan for a wraith or two.

Hope this and the above comments have helped you

Aeont
Level 70 Night Elf Balance Druid (Shandris)

I Believe the night elf druids and the tauren druids shall team up and destroy all the other classes!

Mooooooo!

Gusala - 41 Tauren Druid - Ghostlands

I have gotten staff of beasts in moonkin form and each time u hit with it. It gives you 202 mana which is pretty good. Dont even need water any more it owns. Note: this won't help you in pvp this is  just for questing or after a fight to gain mana back. This staff has no good stats for moonkin only the 45+ stam. But it is VERY good i suggest you get it for ring of blood. Don't get the baton. You will  throw it away anyways after u get bringer of death ect. If you want to feel like you have allot of mana and u will never run out. ( And you probrably won't with this staff). Do it.  you will keep until 70, and use when needed.

Don't use moonfire allot.

yep, i agree, i hardly get out of mana in the instances either. Mmmm. i don't agree that feral druid can pwn the boomkin always, i saw feral getting pwned more. lol and i've been feral all the way up to 70 anyway.
Just like codefreak said
"moonfire, swarm, hit 3 times with wrath then moonfire,swarm.. etc"
You will never run out of mana even with healing group members while attacking same time =P

Best way to conserve mana is to down the mob faster.

Wrath from max range...while wrath is in flight...Roots...Starfire...if the roots hold...Starfire again...then cast MF and IS...and melee till dead.

At 65...My mana is at 7k and my health at 5700.  I SF crit for nearly 3k...2700 usually. And this occurs 18% of the time.

Moonkin owns due to the fact that I have 447 bonus spell dmg and heals.  If I need to...Barkskin/HT.  HT crits for 4800...13% of the time.

Just remember to use all your armor to your advantage...I melee a lot for mana regen and to keep mana for ganking allies.  With OOC, you can look forward to a free MF proc every once in a while...that turns the tables on a PvP situation.  At 62, I downed a 65 ret pally.  He Lay On Hands...I innervate...Barkskin/HT...then I'm at full health with mana coming back...he's oom just auto attacking, and once he got rooted...the game was over.  I finished with full health and half mana...and he was on his face.

Best way to conserve mana is to down the mob faster.

Wrath from max range...while wrath is in flight...Roots...Starfire...if the roots hold...Starfire again...then cast MF and IS...and melee till dead.

At 65...My mana is at 7k and my health at 5700.  I SF crit for nearly 3k...2700 usually. And this occurs 18% of the time.

Moonkin owns due to the fact that I have 447 bonus spell dmg and heals.  If I need to...Barkskin/HT.  HT crits for 4800...13% of the time.

Just remember to use all your armor to your advantage...I melee a lot for mana regen and to keep mana for ganking allies.  With OOC, you can look forward to a free MF proc every once in a while...that turns the tables on a PvP situation.  At 62, I downed a 65 ret pally.  He Lay On Hands...I innervate...Barkskin/HT...then I'm at full health with mana coming back...he's oom just auto attacking, and once he got rooted...the game was over.  I finished with full health and half mana...and he was on his face.

Best way to deal maximum damage and save mana

Mobs: Is, MF Wrathx6 (insect swarm, moonfire, wrath 6 time.
Keep repeating cycle.

Boss: Is, Mf, Starfirex4 (insect swarm, moonfire, starfire 4 times.

Trust me, i've been moonkin for a long time. If u go crazy wrath on boss, you'l be oom real quickly with those crit hit rate.

Try aiming for that alchemist trinket as well. Give %40 more mana or health when u use a potion.

Have fun, moonkin are fun. Too day they can't do much in pvp. Im respecting resto for S3 gear.

Late

One thing most people dont realize is that in terms of mana effeciancy, starfire is your best bet.  Wrath does do more dps than frostbolt yes, but it is also a mana burner.  in other terms, you run out of mana quicker using wrath than you would frostbolt.  Starfire on the other hand, while comprimising some dmg, is very mana efficient in terms of mana and dmg comparisons.  If you broke it down, for a boomkin, starfire would do more dps in the long run as it is more mana efficient, and does very decent dmg  (and SF crits iz ze pwntage sauce ^^)

if your solo'ing i sugest just doing entangle roots and wrath. two of the cheapest spells in the game and it will even out in the down time you would be drinking, this just saves you from having to buy waters....also at your level i would sugest feral. it seemed to be the fastest way to level and easiest for me to get groups. just a suggestion

i been a boomkin for a long time. i say warth is the the best speel ever. i got just over 9k mana and health with 859 nature dmg. i never run out of power.. insect swormm and wath all u need i not use starfire unless i need to for resist purposes. 

Wrath is bad for mana efficiency. Some people above this post lack a clue, sadly.

Run at max range, cast Starfire twice and root the mob. Insect Swarm and run away. Then cast Starfire twice again.
The mob should be dead by now, but if it isn't, cast a Wrath or two.

Only use Wrath as a finisher, not as a main spell.

Guy's enough of balance strategy. I think he get's it. Now talk about balance spec. not how to use it. But i agree allot of balance can kill feral. I never lose against feral. And i have seen allot of people respecing to balance  0.0  . And now locks can get pwned badly with the new 2.3 patch. Remove curse is now usable in moonkin form.

simple way of not losing man fast is : use wrath, use thorns, have points in resto for omen of clarity, get a fast 1 handed weapon (until 70 u don't really need an incredible weapon) and voila you should use a LOT less mana = )

Wow alot of posts here saying to use melee to help with mana conservation. If you need to melee, why not just spec feral, and be meleeing the right way =D with the extra crit chance etc? I am feral and melee everything I can and I dont have to worry about mana. And on the occasion when I need to heal I cast heal knowing i have a full mana pool.

My dps will match a similar geared balance druid. But when he stops to drink ill still be kickin butt. Also if you are feral in endgame and your healer goes down, you will have mana to throw some backup heals after you battle rez him. In Boomkin there is a good chance that you will be close to OOM on a boss fight as you have been trying to burn him down.

Druids are the best regardless of what you choose to be. And lets face it, if you roll a mana user you gotta expect to stop and drink. If this annoys you to do, then roll a melee class. Balance druids, feral druids, and resto druids.....we could grp with just druids and run most any 5man instance and still have the perfect grp.

I dont think any other class could claim that. Pallies would come closest I think but their dps would be nowhere near a druids. DRUIDS ROCK and we will inherit the world!!

i never seem to run out of mana i may be bal druid but i still use my cat and bear to kill unless i just cant be bothered in instances i use cat its easier and quicker and questing it varys depending on the creatured level

Just go AV, find a mage table, and take all the manna biscuits you can hold(I normally take 100, use 10 of them before I log off) :D

When I attack, i normally starfire > insect swarm > root > starfire them to death. Moonfire and wrath are the most mana consuming spells, I avoid using them, but in pvp, if you're going to die anyways, spam it like hell!

How much more mana does, lets say, 200 attack power give on each hit in moonkin form? I chose the baton for the spell dmg, but staff of beasts+moonkin+omen of clarity must surely give  an bottomless mana pool

heres my uber-boomkin grinding combo, open with starfire, root, moonfire, swarm, and then just sit there.re root and cast your druid-dots again when you need. i went from 58-59 with 2 drinks! for casters, just work from their distance, stay out of their range, and only enter to recast dots.

I agree with most of the comments but everone keeps forgetting ferie fire with armor reduction less manna use. my casting is pretty much like this.
    moonfire-roots-fariefire-swarm-srarefire-wrath
Also in raid i use stomp (taurens rock)then barkskin into hurican and if needed treekins

dont forget ferie fire?
armor reduction?
buddy spell damage doesnt get reduced by armor
it depends on enemy's resistance
bad!

yes but faeri fire does help ure pet tree's hit harder and raid members 2

Err, just to interject some facts in here about the starfire/wrath thingy.

WITHOUT talents, gear, etc. Info gotten from WoWWiki.

---
Wrath, Rank 10 (maxed at lvl 69):
2 second cast
30 yards
255 mana cost
381 - 429 Nature damage (average 405)
Most basic [mana : damage] ratio is [1 : 1.588]
---
Starfire, Rank 8 (maxed at lvl 67):
3.5 second cast
30 yards
370 mana cost
540 - 636 Arcane damage (average 588)
Most basic [mana : damage] ratio is [1 : 1.589]
---

Wrath [1 : 1.588]
Starfire [1 : 1.589]

WHICH WORKS OUT TO BE NEARLY EXACTLY THE SAME AND THAT YOU GUYS HAVE BEEN DEBATING OVER A DECIMAL PLACE...

Just joking.

Now, WITH talents...

---
Wrath Talents -
Starlight Wrath: cast time -0.5s
Focused Starlight: crit chance +4%
Nature's Reach: range +20%
Vengeance: crit damage bonus +100%
Celestial Focus: resist cast interruption +70%
Moonglow: mana cost -9%
Moonfury: damage +10%
Balance of Power: hit chance +4%
Moonkin Form: crit chance +5%
Wrath of Cenarius: bonus damage effects +10%
---
IMPROVED
Wrath, Rank 10 (maxed at lvl 69):
1.5 second cast
36 yards
232 mana cost
419 - 472 Nature damage (average 445)
Most basic [mana : damage] ratio is [1 : 1.918]
---
others:
crit chance +9%
crit damage + 100%
hit chance +4%
resist cast interruption +70%
bonus damage effects +10%
---

then for Starfire we have

---
Starfire Talents -
Starlight Wrath: cast time -0.5s
Focused Starlight: crit chance +4%
Nature's Reach: range +20%
Vengeance: crit damage bonus +100%
Celestial Focus: chance to stun for 3 sec +15%
Moonglow: mana cost -9%
Moonfury: damage +10%
Balance of Power: hit chance +4%
Moonkin Form: crit chance +5%
Wrath of Cenarius: bonus damage effects +20%
---
IMPROVED
Starfire, Rank 8 (maxed at lvl 67):
3 second cast
36 yards
337 mana cost
594 - 700 Arcane damage (average 646)
Most basic [mana : damage] ratio is [1 : 1.917]
---
others:
crit chance +9%
crit damage + 100%
hit chance +4%
chance to stun for 3 sec +70%
bonus damage effects +20%
---

SO -
Wrath [1 : 1.918]
Starfire [1 : 1.917]

Nearly exactly the same.

BUT, Starfire has got a stun chance of 15% and 10% more bonus damage effects than Wrath, while Wrath has a 70% chance to avoid interruption from damage.

And, in my calculations, no +dmg gear was factored in. More +arcanedmg will boost Starlight, while more +naturedmg will boost Wrath.

So I conclude that Wrath or Starfire both are excellent spells, it just depends on your personal playstyle, and whether you prefer a longer cast higher damage spell with stunning effects or a lower damage spell with half the cast time and interruption migitation. Looking at the two spells, IMO Wrath is better for nuking under fire (whether getting meleed or whatever) and Starfire is better while the enemy is at range, by using roots and the stun.



BTW, I'm not a Balance druid. FERAL DRUIDS ROCK! So actually this report was not conjured up by an expert, just a bored passerby.

Antecedence, 58 tauren druid at time of posting, Drenden.

For all aspiring raiding oomkin:

1.
First things first - Hit rating - get it to 150. There is nothing worse than a Starfire missing and you haven't done any dmg for 6 seconds.

2. Crit vs Haste
Now, you have options on how to put together your gear once hit is taken care of. There is a lot of haste gear that we are seeing since the last patch. I have only gotten one piece to play with, but the bottom line for druids is:

CRIT = HASTE

It is my opinion that although having a 2.7 second starfire (which will be your primary spell for raiding due to its mana efficiency and the likelihood that curse of shadows will be up in any respectable 25 man) would be sweet, the gear that I have encountered that offers haste, tends to require I give up my crit.
Take into account that crit also = double your damage and you have the equation that I have been using in our raids.

3. How does this gearing compare to other dps?
The new shadow mage spec that our locks are using in raiding is the only class/spec that out dmgs me. For trash I have a crit spec that negates hit, and on longer boss fights, I use my full hit gear, which gives up about 4 percent crit, but is worth it for mana efficiency per cast and overall dps.

4. Spec advice
I specced into the Intensity talent in resto and I will run out of mana at the end of nearly every boss fight in 25mans and through Zul'Jin in ZA. I rarely need to pot, unless there is a particular section of a fight (Prince Phase 2 for example) where I will be spamming Wrath with my spec.

5. Gems
Additionally, I have found a good gem that also happens to be cheap to use is the Dazzling Talasite, which gives me ~3 mp5 as well as the benefits of Intellect that oomkin talents bring.
Also, I have found a need to stack Hit, crit and spell dmg gems. Although I have been putting in Stam gems into my blue slots, in hindsight if I were purely going raiding I would be putting in either 8 spirit or the Dazzling Talasites instead. However, much of my gear doubles for my pvp set as well, so compromises were made.

6. Casting against bosses vs trash
Bosses - Starfire and Insect Swarm only. Keep IS up at all times and fill in the blanks with SF.
Trash/Short boss fights - Moonfire and hope you get your crit since you have an additional 6 percent chance to crit due to talents (most likely) If you get your crit and your tank has good aggro, use that .5 sec advantage on a starfire. If not, toss wraths until your moonfire is down or if you are quicker than I am and can stop clicking wrath before the next 1 sec cast - switch to moonfire. Due your best to use Nature's Grace on Starfire for max dps if possible. Honestly, it doesn't happen often that I am quick enough to stop my next wrath to cast SF instead.
With this rotation, I will typically keep up with the locks on trash - just not possible to keep up with endless mana on bosses.

Thats pretty much my two cents on how I have been successful with my oomkin spec. I had been feral or resto for two years before I even bothered to try it but now that I have and I have the gear, it is definitely a fun spec that has the ability to play a huge dps buff for a raid, be a huge dps in itself, and I also have been one of two healers for Kara and one of 3 healers in ZA - both instances cleared. Yes, my healing set is solid, but I do see this as a viable hybrid spec for both if geared properly.

Good luck with your owl and make sure to dance with your trees!

Imtar

i can see that there are alot posts but dont spam moon fire start off with a start fire on your enemy then entagnling roots then insect swarm and moonfire then another 2 starfires.
startfires cost alot less mana than a moonfire you culd use wrath aswell instaed of starfires buti find that starfires the spell that crits for alot of dam i hoped i heled..


Meridia

My main is a NE Druid. Currently balance spec'd. The history of him is this...started off new to the game and figured a toon that could heal himself, stealth around, tank and cast for dps isnt that bad of a thing. When it came time to pick a skill set...I was stuck. I thought about several things and finally decided the best thing for me (am guilded, but run solo alot) was Balance. My Mana is near 7.5k, and am geared for Crit %. My Crit % for spells is almost 30%, and am hitting on my Starfire for high 2k, have broke 3k twice. Plus with Idol of the Moon I am a definate DOOMKIN. The pleasant surprise was the assist role you get as a druid. Unless you got Resto (which isnt recommended for leveling) Feral/Balance allows you to still have alt gear for Healing and as a druid you are skillful enough to assist heal, or as I do alot...main heal in instances. Just info on the whole druid thing...sure going Resto gets you into more Raids/Groups...but ultimately the game is for fun and what is more entertaining then dropping a MOB with 2 Starfires and a Moonfire before they even reach you!!! Oh and DOOMKINs are pretty reliable Caster Tanks...have done that with good success...which surprised me.

There are alot of comments here that have nothing to do with the original thread including the last one. Just thought i'd be big headed and point that out. Sounds like a written myspace. ME ME ME, My toon this my toon that. LOL

about the mana thingy... im a 67 tauren doomkin and i never have problems going oom. i use a hell lot of mana using casts but never seem to go oom. i was instancing once and all my teammates went oom on the boss starting at full mana while i was casting like hell andf only got to half mana when i starter at 3/4! so mana consumtion for druids is no prob.


btw by the time i loot a mob and target another lol my mana went a quarter up =)

only ever spam moonfire if a mob is running into a group of mobs... or ur going out for a spot of ret pally(useless bastards) hunting and they try to run away which they almost always do.