Sure, everyone and their alt has a twink, but how do they affect the PvP community in general? Some people think its fun to beat on lowbies with a character effectively 15 or so levels higher, but are the honor points worth cheating them out of the characters who tried to earn them with a serious character, not just an alt made for PvP "fun"? Do you think they help the PvP community by giving a team an ace in the hole to help along victory? Or do you think that twinks are just kill and honor farming that ruin the lower-level PvP experience for real characters? Post opinions, arguements, and stories of experiences with twinks.

Proud owner of multiple twinks, currently a 19 priest and lock. Priest has +349 healing (in full healing gear) and lock has +155shadow dam, (and 1.5k health unbuffed).

I enjoy playing them between arenas on my main and because once you complete one..its done..a level 70 has to level, gets new gear sets, etc...I have perfect twinks, and I'm satisfied with them, and always will be. I admit it is fun to 1-shot someone occasionally, but thats not why I do it. Adds more thrill to the game for me..pvping is so pointless on my main anyhow..my gear is such that I shred through most things in any BG and the only challanges are other like geared people...or when I get ganged up on...I spend most of my time "pvping" in westfall/goldshire..thats what real pvp is, world pvp..but I dun like the 1 hour walk time back from far eastern elwynn forest, and playing one guy gets boring after a while, so I log my priest and spam 580 heals (noncrit) and 83 a tick renews on myself, while 5-6 nontwinks frantically try to kill me.

Or kite them around on my lock, dots ticking 35+ at level 19. To me its part of the game...

Wow dude ur priest has some wicked healing....

actualy twinks dont ruin pvp on low lvls coz WSG is s(@% full load of them at 19
same goes for 29 if u wanna pvp normaly 39 and 49 BG normaly have 3-5 twinks max

You've managed to avoid the point of my statement. "Warsong Gulch is shitfull of them" is the issue I'm addressing, I'm asking for opinions on HOW you think twinks affect lowbie PvP not "they already do, so iI don't care".

Twinks are part of the game! Whats the point of having gear to twink toons if no one does it. I get sick of hearing how twinks ruin the game for other people. It's a game people, everyone gets beat up by someone who is better geared at 1 point or anouther, that should be encouragement to get better gear to match up against other players! I do hate to see ?? killing toons for fun though where is the sport in that. I have died countless times by twinks, so now i have a twink and return the favor.

Twinks are fun to kill in WSG, it really winds them up. Can remember my main 29 shammy going up against a twink dwarf warrior and doing him. It can be a pain repeatedly finding yourself against a premade but that's the game.

As for world PvP, it really IS part of the game.

  what i hate are the twinks bitching because some1 is not twinked. bitching because som1 is not high enough (letz say below 18). as much as twinks are a part of a game is the same as a lvl 10-17 wanting to get some pts in pvping or just checking out how well he does at his lvl.
twinks if u want to be respected then u have to repect others choices as well. just stop ur bitching. take ur losss as part of the game, and hope for a better group next queue.


-gro

i hate twinks, because i dont have one.  i will eventually, but ide rather have the choice between a lvl 70 lock and a lvl 70 warrior.  i spent some good time at WSG and AB when my lock was lvl 39, just to accumulate honor and medals so i can deck him out with all the best gear before grinding another 10 levels.  at lvl 39 he was almost a twink, minus a lvl 70 supplying gold.  now lvl 43 and still using 90% of what i won in the BG.  its annoying running into a twink, but i dont sweat it, it is an unavoidable part of the game.

I'll pimp out my new characters every so often with the best/cheapest available equipment (Qs and crafted mostly), but far from twinking because I will level them and dnt have the money.
Other then that, I detest twinks and they really do ruin BGs in the 10-19 bracket. The idea of PvP is that its fun to match yourself against someone, not know who will win and hope like hell it will be you. There is no thrill or fun in fighting a twink at all (except if you happen to be a twink). And EVERY twink I have ever played with or against has targetted the lower players before the twinks, just to ruin it abit more for them. Saying "just get your own equipment and twink up" is stupid, as twinks are almost untouchable to anyone without the serious gold for items and only getting 1 token a BG. Yesterday I took my warrior into WSG at 19 to try and get the remaining 9 tokens he needed. 4.5hours later he had 5. Having 8 twinks sitting on your GY and killing everyone as they respawn before they can escape is apparently fun?
I just hope Blizzard does the sensible thing and moves twinks to their own BGs so normal players and lowbies can actually PvP instead of being a twink carpet...

Having played for years twinks arnt really a problem it possible to beat a twinked player with a naked lower level char with some match ups.  If you want to see this in practice take a level 18 Nelf hunter into WSG BM speced and send in your pet while you are shadowmelded playing around with this can get you well above half way on dam meters and you can be be very useful for flag spotting and marking. 

A well played rogue between levels 20-39 often doesnt need anything more then the starting daggers to take on many opponents, I used to pvp naked with mine for a laugh between these levels and had few problems.

What has annoyed me in the past though is where some players link the term "twink" with "skill".  Im not saying that having a twink means you lack any skill at all but if players were really skilled and wanted to show it they would fight and win using the most basic eq possible. 

By and large though this isnt possible at low level as you dont have enough skills/spells/talents to have any real originality in playstyle. 

If any twink beats you and starts boasting about it realise its just down to their insecurity and need to prove themselves then anything else :).

P.S. Oh and complain all you like, ever since twinks apeared nothing has really been done about them, and I doubt anything ever will, there are too many people who at some point get bored and make one, (though actually playing one struck me as completely lacking any challange at all and was the most boring experience WoW has to offer).

How can anyone say that there is no skill in playing a twink. Lvl 10 to 19 BG is full of twinks and the real skill is matching up against a group and taking down as many as possible. You cannot test your skill lvl in the lower BG's by matching up 1v1, because rare is the case of that ever happening. It is always a group vs group or 2 or more vs 1. You could never have balance in a BG, even without twinks. Sombody is always gonna have a little bit better gear, there is no skill involved whether it is a twink or a naked toon. It's about gear, the better gear usaully wins, or whoever gets the drop on someone, nothing skillful about being naked vs naked, that just means 1 hour wsg's because everyone is evenly matched. I agree that everyone regardless of level should not be harrassed because they want to do wsg and see what it is all about, but you have to assume that low lvls get taken out as soon as possible to lower the amount of people counter attacking. I have had some really bad WSG's, it has been 1 sided and we lose many times due to the better geared horde then allies, but i have also been in many bg's where we dominated for the same reasons. In pvp how often are you gonna be evenly matched anyways.

There isnt much skill in being a twink for the sheer fact only other twinks are a problem, you can walk over everyone else. Twinks are incredibly unoriginal, all having pretty much identical gear (being undead/gnomes and NE hunters). Then look....Holy hell batman! We have players more evenly matched then before and ZOMG its like normal players fighting. It doesnt require ANY extra skill to be a twink, if anything its less.
Plus about 80% of the twinks I've seen/played with/against have next to no skill anyway. If an untwinked players can take them down without odds of 3to1 then they plain suck. :) Over twice the HP and dmg at bare minimum, over an untwinked (And thats a twink rogue to warrior! Twink warrior V mage is like 7to1 HP).
It wouldnt be that hard to seperate twinked players from normal players on BG entry (just look for the enchanted defias chest/tree bark or leg patchs for a start). Give the little guys a chance!

Why is it then with a level 18 hunter on 300 health with items only from level 1-18 quests can I beat the majority of level 19 twinks who have 1.3k+ health?  Why with a level 18 Paladin with level 14ish greens was I invited into a "twink only" guild and beat most of the fully twinked guys in it (cool guys but some depended a little too much on eq).

It isnt all about gear and there are plenty of times you are fighting 1v1, even in WSG.  After level 20 AB 1v1s are very common for those who dont alway just zerg the other side.

As for gear matches on twinks vs later levels anyone can arena or pvp for later gear also there are a lot of stam based greens and blues that can be bought at AH that are far better for PvP at level 70 then most the PvE epics so even a casual player should be able to compete with the vast majority of players at level 70. 

The most gear dependant classes are probably Warrior, Paladin and Druid and there are easily made decent smithed weapons to get you started and druid really isnt so hard for basic healing/stam gear for arena in order to get the better arena gear.

There is no time at level 70 when any player with half a clue is as out geared as a level 19 non-twink is compaired to a level 19 twink.  At 70 it isnt possible to fight someone with over 5 times your health and damage while at level 19 that is a non-twink vs a twink.

Im not against twinking but the eq difference between a level 19 twinked char and a new level 19 char will always be far greater then any two level 70 chars so really you cant compair it.  By and large hard core PvPers at 70 will have 10k health minimum.  The comparison could only be made if casual PvPers had 2000 health at level 70 and that would be near impossible for any class. 

if blizz separated twinks from nontwinks in BG, the wait time would easily double.  sometimes i enjoy twinks... when i beat them, inspect their equipment and see all blues w/ the best enchants.

If you are a level 18 hunter with 300 health and kill twinks so well, why would twinks be a problem for you? The amount of honor you get in WSG, 10 to 19 is so minimal, why would anyone keep a toon at level 19 and not twink them. Hunters range attack and have pets, they kite, of course you are going to beat alot of people twinked and non twinked. Hypathetically, lets say a warrior wearing all the same gear and weilding the same weapon as anouther warrior, meet in the middle of the battlefield and it is 1v1 no outside help, who wins that? Wouldn't it be the 1 who got the first attack. Where is the skill? It comes down to who has the better gear, or potion at the time, otherwise it's just random swinging at each other and hoping for crits. I play a 19 warrior not fully twinked but close, i lose to other players many times twinked and non twinks, it doesn't mean that my skill is any different than anyone else, it's about match-ups and gear. Even before i started a twinking my warrior, I rarley met 1v1 in 10 to 19. Sure in AB it is different because there are more things to capture, in WSG it's grab the flag and return to your base, and it's always in the same place, in AB there are different areas to cap and the teams spread out more which means more 1v1. Skill comes into play more after level 20, unless both sides are evenly matched (gear wise ) then it is a matter of teamwork. Doesn't everyone get the best gear they possibly can for their toon's level anyway? Why would anyone complain about people with the best stuff for their level? Isn't that the whole point of Blizz putting that stuff out there, so that people can use it? Maybe Blizz should make a special WSG, 10 to 19 no twinks allowed so new people can try it out and have fun.

Not wanting to start a flaming war but there are quite a few points I desagree with (not saying I have to be right but please hear me out).

"If you are a level 18 hunter with 300 health and kill twinks so well, why would twinks be a problem for you?"

They arnt but for some they seem to be^^.

"The amount of honor you get in WSG, 10 to 19 is so minimal, why would anyone keep a toon at level 19 and not twink them."

I had a level 19 troll hunter twink and leveled him to 29 and PvPed with the same eq (only upgrading bow from WSG).  I spent a fortune twinking him up and no longer then 2 days in 10-19 WSG due to the fact that it was just too stupidly easy.  No game went by without being top 3 for damage, usually top and as you probably know with track and conc shot and mark hunter is good for chasing down flag runners.

Reason not to twink is simple, its a challange.  I have had far more fun with a near to naked level 18 hunter and pally and level 39 naked rogue using starting daggers then I could ever have with a twink as I get the feeling (maybe wrongly) that it is me doing the work each fight rather then my eq.

"Hypathetically, lets say a warrior wearing all the same gear and weilding the same weapon as anouther warrior, meet in the middle of the battlefield and it is 1v1 no outside help, who wins that? Wouldn't it be the 1 who got the first attack. Where is the skill? It comes down to who has the better gear, or potion at the time, otherwise it's just random swinging at each other and hoping for crits."

Now this is where I really disagree.  True at low levels classes lack so many options and warrior probably lacks most options at all levels but still its amazing how it is nowhere near as you describe if a player knows what he is doing.

Firstly build is very important, though less so at lower level.  Secondly warrior vs warrior you should hamstring and debuff then try to get intercepts.  Not only does this stun but also allows you to get behind (note this isnt an option for low level twinks, which is one reason why playing at this level removes quite a bit of skill).  My exp of playing as warrior is limited though so maybe someone will correct me here.

Most importantly though any melee class who fights should NEVER EVER just stand and hope for crits.  You should spend the entire fight constantly circling your opponent.  I can recall fights where I killed better geared players at low level while only taking one or two hits purely down to the fact they more or less stood there.  If you ever see any player walking backwards for intance you know its going to be an easy fight more often then not. 

Some people just dont seem to have the nack of circling and spamming the right skills at the same time and believe me its the fight winner when two melee classes come together.

"Even before i started a twinking my warrior, I rarley met 1v1 in 10 to 19."

Makes sense.  Really depends on the class you play I think.  As a hunter I found my best role was to wait around midfield.  Slow anyone trying to kill our flag runner while using track humanoid and beast the second our flag was captured so as to take it back and mark them out for our team.

As a NE hunter with shadowmeld this can be very effective but it does mean you are more open to 1v1s.  Even at level 18 you can use trap to avoid ambush and with boar for immob warriors and rogues (two very popular twink classes) are really rather easy to beat.  At this level, as you know, warrior really cant do much vs a hunter with a clue. 

But again this all changes at higher level where a skilled warrior can be very effective vs a hunter and by and large should win.  Low level PvP though you really just dont have many tools to play with thus removing much of the tactics and versitility and therefore most of the "skill" which is what your saying by "Skill comes into play more after level 20, unless both sides are evenly matched (gear wise ) then it is a matter of teamwork.".

Cant remember exactly how many years Ive been playing (tried checking through old patches and can remember them all back to 1.02) and I have often seen equally geared players dueling using the same class with the winner each time being the one who knows their class and how to play it.  Gear can be an advantage but if you dont land a hit through slow movement or not understanding your/their class, going all for dam instead of having stamina, not using LoS and CCs correctly then no matter your eq is like you will not win much.

If you seperate twinks from non-twinks then chances are new players will have very long waits as most ppl twink now (and Ill not get to fight twinks with my non-twinks which is the only low level fun to be had for me).  It just a pitty that quite a few new players may have been put off PvP completely due to low level twinks.

Lol... didnt realise I would be writing an essay, sorry :(.

I apologize for saying that there is no skill involved in lower BG's, there is some minor skill. I guess it is knowing your toon and your limited abilities at lower levels is where the skill is. However this was a question on how twinks affect pvp and if they ruin it for others. Of course they ruin it for other players that are non twinked, because they are litterally overpowered, compaired to the average toon that is just doing BG's with ordinary gear. I enjoy playing WSG, it is a break from grinding out levels with my main, I hate going into a BG and not even haveing a chance to get passed midfield, and being the target for quik deaths. With as many twinks that are in the game now you really almost have to be one to compete in the low level BG, unless you play a rogue or hunter, who really own in the 10 to 19 bg. I could always level up and play 20 to 29 or 30 to 39 BG's, but there are alot of twinks in that range to. After 39, WSG is lame to me because everyone has a mount and it's mount-up get off mount-up get off, that really makes the battle field so small when you think about it. PVP would be alot funner if we were all geared the same and the match-ups weren't so one sided, and to me that is why i play a twink, because it seems to me that i face way more twinks in a BG than non twinks. Eventually there will be all twinks in the lower bg's and it will be a normal game, and everyone will have fun playing WSG. 

For those who say twinking is stupid and unfair LOOK at 70's a new 70 compared to one who has been 70 for a few months will have all epics opposed to the blues and greens the new 70's have.  You can no longer cry about unfair.  Try making a twink they are lotsa fun and you get to no the community of twinks



Always here

Not saying unfair or stupid as such but what you wrote just isnt the case.  I new player at level 19 will have, through quest eq, about 350 health a twink will have (if they are any good) a minimum od 1.3k and damage to match.

That is almost four times the health.  At level 70 your looking at about 4500 health naked. 

Let us just say your a complete and utter noob to pvp and therefor running about with 7000 health at level 70 (i.e. only 2500 from eq).  In order for your statement to be correct all the level 70s with the best gear would have to be running around with about 28000 health unbuffed and damage to match.

Show me a character not on a private server with almost 30k health unbuffed and Id agree with you.  The comparison would be a level 70 being kitted out with enchantments and kits done by a level 120 player...

Yours is a statement I used to think could be correct before I got to level 60 and then before I got to level 70 in TBC.  Then when I got to these levels I realised that the gap between the very best eq and easily gotten eq really isnt so much after all especially in teamed pvp.  True the best geared arena players should beat you but at level 70 there isnt much else to do then grind for good eq.

As rummblefish says its off putting to fight in a BG like this with a new character.  I played long before twinks were even thought of there was a slow trickle at first then a major surge.  Although I cant prove it Im willing to bet it is because many higher levels came to the conclusion that if you cant beat em you may aswell join em.

On your 1st char a levels 10-19 you may just want to casually try out some PvP for the first time and in reality its pretty obvious that twinking can come in the way of players enjoying this.  Note that for experienced players leveling up 10-19 isnt an issue as your easily over level 20 in a day but for a new casual player it could take a week+.

One thing I have found is it really doesnt take long to kit out a level 18 with WSG rewards but even these alone arnt enough for a new player to compete (with possible exception of hunters). 

There is a difference between geared-out 70s and twinks. The geared out 70 WORKED for their gear or did something you didn't to get their gear. They didn't have another toon mail them the absolute BEST gear from Illidan and Hyjal Peak, chant it, give them kits, and them throw them into a BG and say "go for it". Why? Because as you level, there seems to be a fade between gear-dependency and skill to a point where a person with enough skill can beat the most well-geared person. A twink, however, is at such a low level that your options are very limited, your spec hasn't really come into it's own, and gear is a much bigger factor than in 70 PvP. When You are able to crit for 900+ at lvl 19, as much as you  don't want to hear it, you not that l337, you just outgear the opposing player to such a REDICULOUS extent that you can teach your dog to push the highest damage moves and actually get kills. Furthermore, you said "Make a twink, its fun." How? IMO playing a twink is like WoW god-mode. You know, where your playing some random console game and someone shows you a cheat code for all the best stuff, or infinite whatever, or "god mode", where every iota of skill is completely alienated from the game. Thats what a twink is. Some guy who saw everyone else playing with the cheat, so he got it. Some guy who decided that maybe destroying lowbies in PvP would be fun. IMO, it is the one part of WoW, after smashing critters, that requires the least amount of skill. 

you guys need to spell check seriously im trying to read down the fn page and i have 10 yr olds typing wtf go to school

Skip the spelling lectures. His point is completely valid. Making a twink via your main is boring. Making one by hand (yes, its not an actual twink but its the best a proper player can do) is quite satisfying. You put in all the work and effort, you end up with a pretty damn good PvPist. Hes not twinked out (Kitted out a rogue at 24, warrior at 25 and a mage at 36 and yet each barely spent more then 5g, which they have earnt by then!) with the 400g leg patches or 100g enchants which you can pick up in about 5mins at lvl 70 (if not AH, then by simply asking). Yes a twink looks impressive, but they completely destroy the concept of PvP fun. Its a 10-19 PvP area, let the damn 10-19s fight! Not a dumbass lvl 70 who wants to stamp on their sandcastle. PvP in your own damn group, go pwn some 61s if you want to be an assh*le.
New players join WoW all the time. The first bit of proper PvP they find it WSG, hence why you get lvl 10-13s wandering around in white equipment. It used to be fun, the chance of helping kill someone else, having to work as a team. Now its Twink V Twink awhile those little guys are just critters.
A rogue who is capable of slaugthering a fellow 19 in 3 seconds (leather or mail armor) is not fun. A priest who, despite being on 5% health and 5% mana, is unkillable by a good player with full health/mana, is not fun. A warrior who can simply stand there while someone hacks/shoots/fries him with all their mana and still be alive in a minutes time, is not fun. And this is ONE twink.
When you put 4 twinks on a team against the little critters, A) there is no fun for ANYONE (cept the perverted little 13 yr old twinks)
B) it tends to put these low lvls off PvP (which is one of the big fun parts of the game)
C) does it make you feel big and better? It is effectively a ?? ganking you. Except there is no way out of it.

I have a solution. I think twinks ruin the game as well. Simply get rid of the buyout system in AH, sure then prices for twink items may skyrocket because other twink players will be constantly upping the item price, but then twinks will spend so much time hounding the AH that they wont have time step foot inside a BG because they'll have to keep an eye on their auctions.

That would have a pretty negative effect on everyone else trying to use AH as well though.

Blizz knows how to limit the impact of twinks in the game  All that would need to be done is put levels on all enchants and gear upgrades (as they have with the ones from TBC).

Either it is too much work for them to be bothered or they think they may lose the players who play twinks.  As new players will move on to higher levels the only people this would really effect in the long run are twinks (and those few who claim they NEED to twink in order to level up...).

Stop whining about twinks. Here's the rule.  Good twinks twink to kill other twinks.

End of story.

The other rule is, who the hell says a person with skill can't have a twink? Is there some unwritten rule saying a amazing player can't possibly make a twink? Why? Just because we have good gear, doesent mean we need it. Hell, my lock and warrior were dominatign BG's long before i twinked them. I have a char of every class, and a couple 70's... i HAVE skill, twinks CAN have skill.

When i go into a game, i don't chase after non twinks unless i need to in order to win the game, i look for other twinks to kill. To test my skill against.

Also... blizz isen't going to regulate Twinks, and guess why? Because pvp is about winning.
Players who do what it takes to win, are doing what the game is intended for.
Twinks are annoying, i myself trust in my own honer not to camp a GY, not to kill the same player over and over. Heck.. i dont even attack levels bellow the halfway mark in my bg.

Twinks inspire better players, twinks improve the mroal of the rest of the team.  For most people, a twink is a char they can log on to have fun, not a char they log on to intentionaly piss people off.

This doesen't count those jerk twinks who spam /spit /laugh /pity /mock and so on.  If you're a twink with honer, you'll soon find people hate you less.  Oh... ans btw... anyone on this forum who's on a pvp server, and whines about twinks. Needs to join a rp server and stay in Goldshire/barrens all day. PvP is what you signed up to do, so... your fault.

Did someone say QQ?

Oh.. and if you want to flame me, or see my chars.. here ya go.

Youngsoul, 70 Elf druid on Silverhand. (Was my first twink at 39.)
Sussyy, ex twink Gnome warlock lvl 52 Silverhand. (Avraged less then 5 deaths, more then 40 Hk's, and around 100,000-200,000 damage a game.)
Lovedoll, undead mage side Argent Dawn.
Alisper, well geared 47 elf hunter Silverhand. (No enchants)
Sussay, well geared 29 human holy paladin (Only one leg buff.)
Moonskin, 6o Night elf Rogue i don't play much anymore. Silverhand.
Vashheat, 38 Night elf warrior, well geared, dominates in pvp without many enchants. Not staying in the 30's bracket.

So... let the insults and QQ's come.
I'll still log on 1 of my 3 twinks and win my team their WSG or AB. Alliance need to win occasionaly, anyways.

Mmm.... lotsa posts.

For the morons telling us twinks that we're "God mode" Uhm... you DO realise we fight other twinks, right? I mean.... not everyoen sucks as much as you, and you should notice that even twinks get nuked by other twinks of better skill, or a class/spec that is best against them.  Say in 19's a rogue ambush crits a lowbie for  900 damage. And they die. Well... look at it this way, that same rogue will probably find a twink on your team, try the same thing, and get knocked the f--k out.

Besides, i don't hear many people crying on my team when my twinks save their asses with a well placed heal. Or a cheapshot on that warrior that you just coulden't lose track of.

What you need to realise is.. when my warrior or lock attacks and kills a player.. i do not imediatly go "Woot! i kicked your arse! Go me! Go me! I'm awesome!" No, i move on to my next challange.
Good twinks don't twink for the purpose of killing people easily, as i said before. Good twinks twink to kill twinks!

It doesen't make me feel "big" that my twink killed you in pvp.. in fact, i feel nothing if i killed you without trying. And i feel bad for you. My thrills are from when i finaly manage to kill that other twink horde side who was giving my teammates so much trouble. 
So here's a question, you join a game that involves other players attacking you for the purpose of winning and having fun. So, why do you cry when someone kills you, it's a war! Hell, if it were a real war they'd claughter your whoel family. You want an opposing team to give you favors? They gear up, they win, they have fun.  Honestly, make one semi-twink. I promise, if you're a good player, you'll get the same rush killing a hardcore twink. It's so satisfying fighting some undead who's spitting on you, only to use your talant to turn it aroud on him, then just walk away from his already rotted corpse.

Way to spam a thread O.o One not just condense that lot down into one post?
Killing twinks is a satisfying experience, everyone knows that. The fact that only twinks or exceptional skill+luck can do it solo, is the depressing part. You keep going on about ho you only go for twinks. Everyone says that and yet very very very very few stick to that. They go for kills, tracking someone halfway across a map if its going to be easy.
Twinks on your team are no longer a morale boost, maybe if they dive on the twink killing you and slaughter it. But otherwise twinks do not boost morale unless you realize most of your team is twinked.
I stick by the idea of having twink BGs, might lower the number of players willing to play (half the number of battlegroups instead?) but then you "good" twinks can go slap each other all day instead of wearing normal players as gory hats. And yes, Twinks are playing the "god mode". You say you wouldn't kill low levels? Do you ever grab the flag? Do you ever go return your flag?
Nontwinks cannot take out a twinked FC. At all. You'd need a number of people to attack him and if hes any good he will have another 2-3 guys defending him.
Nontwinks cannot stop a twink grabbing the flag. They also cnt hold onto a flag against a twink.
So no matter what you say about "good" twinks dnt attack low lvls/normals you are still ruining what would be a game (within a game...). Akin to Poker but you only ever get dealt royalty.

OOOOOOOKKKKK. Twink with . . . ahem . . "honor". First you say that twinks are made to kill other twinks, then you said twinks don't kill non-twinks, then you say that you aren't one of those twinks who spams all of the /emotes, THEN you say that you feel bad for those you kill in PvP. If anything WE feel bad for YOU that you need to smash lowbies to have fun. You made like 6 different posts on one repeated subject that didn't even make a valid, tangible point as all of it was a generalization about yourself that has no conclusive evidence to lead us to belive you were saying anything true(although thats basically all this page is, although this one has two clear sides with enough "witnesses" to support a valid point).
BTW ending a post with "I'll still log on to one of my twinks and win my team an AB or WSG". You assume that battlegrounds are the efforts of one lone hero leading his group to victory? You know nothing about PvP. Its the combined effort of a group of players all pulling to their own end. Its not "Look at me, I'm a twink! I was made by a 70 so assume I have skill and FOLLOW ME!!!!!" On occasion one skilled player will make a crucial flag capture, or hold of the FCs guards, or capture a base or what have you, but large scale PvP is the combined effort of the collective, not the selfless leadership of the gnome named "Ganku" with a 30 stam 10 agi kit on his legs.

The way you say it, you make it sound like in BG's that the only twinks are the ones not on your teams. There are twinks in every BG that i go into on both sides. So if a twink is carrying the flag, that doesn't mean only non twinks are trying to get it back, and if skill is so much better than being twinked it should be no problem for 4 non twinks to take out the FC. I do agree that twinks can ruin the game for some players that are just learning and don't have GOD like gear, but the fact is they are on both sides. Not every level 10 can afford good green gear, so does that mean that toons with green gear are twinks over those guys? This is a bit ridiculous,how some people are saying that twinks have no skill and that they love to kill twinks, yet they don't want them in BG's because they ruin the game. Get a life, if you don't like twinks then don't pvp. If you are so skilled than quit your crying about twinks and kill them with your white gear and skill. Not everyone twinks their toons to farm honor from lowbies, I twinked to match-up against other players who are twinked, and i like pvp. I will kill non twinks and twinks,if they are in the way of me helping my team win, then i will kill them. I don't target random easy kills i target everyone not on my team. I don't farm honor, i try to cap flags and get victorys. Thats it, the gear i have is available to all toons not just me and if they can't afford it, then they do what i did get high enough level make some money and then make a twink. Or just post flaming messeges about how twinks ruin the game!

Reading through this thread, I think one problem is that the term "twink" can mean different things to different people.  For me, there are three different types of twink.

The first type are the twelve-year-old kiddies (or, in the case of some people that I know in real life, adults with all the maturity of twelve year olds) who spend all the gold they bought from the chinese farmers on the very best items so that they can prove their leetness by one-shotting newbies in BG and world PVP.  They're the type of terminally bored and talentless idiots who enjoy corpse-camping players forty levels lower than them or killing quest-givers in lowbie Horde or Alliance areas.  Such guys are looking to play WoW in God mode and hate any sort of challenge.  Usually, such guys are actually a liability in BG as all they want to do is farm easy HK's and brag about their place in the damage meters.  Forget about getting such guys to actually work with the rest of their team.  I've won several WSG matches simply because half the Horde side weren't interested in doing anything more than scoring easy kills by camping the Alliance graveyard while the Alliance players that weren't being camped had little trouble capturing the Horde flag and defending their flag against the very few Horde that were actually trying to play.

The second kind of twink are the kind of players who think they need the very best weapons and enchants in order to level up, rather than simply finding out how to play their class and doing their homework on the most efficient quest circuits.  They're usually easy to recognise by the fact that they constantly spam the guild chat or trade channel for boosts so that they can farm the blue/purple item with the 0.00001% drop rate that they think they need in order to level with.  They will also think nothing of spending 50G enchanting a BOE blue that will be vendor trash in a ten levels or so - less if they would simply learn how to play in a group and do a few instance runs.  For the record, other than food and potions, I've spent a grand total of seven gold since my mid-twenties levelling a night elf rogue (currently level 57) and even that was a mistake since it was on one sword that I hardly ever used since I later discovered that a quest reward sword that I already had was better.

Then there's those twinks, a small minority in all probability, who actually see twinking as a challenge.  They will usually be quite skilled, will have done their homework on how to beat each of the individual classes with their chosen class, will have researched the best weapons, gear and enchants for their level and will actually enjoy a good fight where their opponent doesn't die in the first three seconds.  Frankly, anyone with that mentality is more likely to simply get their characters up to 70 and fight in Arena -the HK farmers worst nightmare - rather than bother with the lower-level BG's where the rewards just aren't worth the effort and expense.

When people complain about twinks, they usually mean the first kind as these are the ones who are ruining BG's, especially at the lower levels which are more gear than skill dependent.  However there are a few of the third kind in this thread who are confusing the issue.

Mmm.. those are some good, good flames towards me. Congrats. To be perfectly honest..and to use a WoW term. *Yawn*  As my lock the most i do is either stay in the fort (wsg) and defend or go straight to horde roof, kill off the Defense with spells, and run the flag for a cap.

The reason i made so many posts... is just that i had so much to say, and every time i finished a post i had more on my mind. Yes those posts were mostly about me, but i will say this... i'm twinking a holy 29 paladin right now, for the sole purpose of healing lower levels and the rest of my raid. See what it's like to be a support class like a holy paladin. And heck.. she's not even a twink, just decent gear and one leg enchant i got for free. And hey, if you doubt my skill... come find me on SilverHand. I gave you all my char names, but no one's come to see me. I feel all alone!

Ta Ta!

You could have just . . . I dunno, EDITED the first comment. BTW the only reason you got flamed is because some of your posts . . . were just odd.

The reason he was flamed was because you don't like twinks and he does, regardless of how odd the comments were. Just like most people if they don't agree they resort to badmouthing.

I should have just edited, yes. Sowwyy.
When i wrote those big posts i wasen't in the best of mood, and it came out in my writing.  We all have our openion, i had no right to be so rude or forward about mine.

To all of you against us twinks.
We're not all bad.
We're just players having fun. In the way we find most enjoyable for us.
We play the game our way.
If we don't question you, you shoulden't question us.
It's alot of fun, and even though our rep varies from great to horrible... we're people just like you. Playing a game we love. In the way we love.
Why question that?
Nothing will change the fact that gear can make the god.
I will always admit that, but our gear.. and our focus on pvp is just part of the game we play. Is that so bad?

Not saying we don't ruin BG's, but without us.. i don't think it'd be too much better.


One last thing i must admit to all of you.
I'm a harcore player. But i always hated raiding. And i never was much into endgame acheiving beyond my arena and pvp gear. So i pvp. Alot. 
You can liken the fact that we all have our own goals in the game. Some of us raid kara and BT.. praying and hoping to beat these amazing new bosses.  Some of us pvp, getting skill and gear so that we can pvp to our fullest potential. Some uf spend all day hanging around Rping.  soem of us go out into the world and attack opposing cities.  Hell.. some of us pay 15$ a month to dance naked and never do anything! 
Play for fun.
Play for the sake of playing.
Let no one tell you your way is the wrong way.
Let no one tell you that you don't deserve to enjoy yourself.
Don't bring others down for how they choose to play.
Get over it.

Oh.. and thank you for your post, rummblefish. It's very wise.
(There... how's that for a single post? :D)

Why? Because your dreaming!

My first toon ever, a rogue, and now my main, beat some gnome rogue twink and I didn't realize he was a twink untill I hit higher levels.

Whats the point of a twink, if you can use it effectively to beat noobs?

Obviously the rogue you beat was a noob, or not a twink at the time of said battle, or maybe AFK when you attacked him. More than likely the rogue you beat was someone who had no idea how to play, if you outskilled him using not so good gear.

Twinks make the game interesting, I have a 19 twink hunter and its fun to duel people higher levels than me and win. The 10-19 pvp community shouldn't be concerned much with honor since you fly through those levels anyway, and not to mention the affect twinks have on the economy with twink gear selling for so much.... I have made alot of money by selling twink gear. I always keep an eye out for cheap twink gear on the ah to buy and resell.

Twinks are fine in the battlegrounds (when they're on your side), but not for random world pvp.

I got nerfed 12 times by the same goddamn twink (lvl 49) at thorium point, (the graveyard is right nect to my corpse). It was a night elf warrior, and he just camped right by my corpse with shadowmeld, and killed my in 2 hits everytime i spawned (with 1/2hp and mana and no buffs). He even waited right there for 5 mins while i watched him as a ghost, watching my corpse. And then he typed /spit.

in pvp battlegrounds, its which ever side has the most rogue twinks wins... all they do is camp the flags and ambush your casters for 3/4 of their life, kidneyshot you and do it again, with a backstab for variety. Then they dothe same to the warriors, but with a gouge as well...

The only thing that beats a good twink is another good twink of the right class or someone about 10 levels higher.

Although its more fun not having to work hard, (desperately trying to get enough money for your next armour by selling your measly lvl 10ish loot), by sending him/her the profits from your last 5 minutes grinding, you can save time. But the twinks with armour enchancement, and high level expensive enchants are a pain in the ass. Hard to kill, hard to avoid, and controlled by someone who has nothing better to do than make your life miserable.


~~ EvilTwig ~~ Ragnaros

I've logged about 10 days played on my 19 Twink Exolauris, a 19 hunter, and honestly, I love it, the fact I'm nearly undefeated 1v1 (2 losses to 19s 1v1) In my opinion, twinks are fun, a relaxer from end game tension, and they help economy greatly, come on, how many people farm Shadow Fang Keep 10000000000000000000 times to get a Shadowfang or Assassins Blade and sell it for 250-300g.

there are a lot of newcomers to wow....and when those  guys go in the BG...and they don't know whats a twink and get easily killed they'll form the opinion that they suck and slowly stop BG-ing.

The best time to start Bg-ing for a non twink or a new comer...is somewhere over lvl40....till then...my opinion is stay away from the BG...if ur'e not good enough...u don't stand a chance and help twinks make their easy hp. It happened to me to ....and it sucks !!!

BTW...the best thing about twinks is that u make a hell lot of money selling gear :D.  So for that.. keep on twinking guys...and give me my money  :D

I love PvP but hated it in WoW when I first started playing.

Some battlegrounds and duels were fun but a majority of them were completely one-sided since the differences in gear completely outweighed character skill and PvP strategy.  Battlegrounds in the 10-19 and 20-29 brackets were the worse with some twinks able to take on the whole entire opposing team.

Getting owned over and over again with complete ease from enemy twinks made me not want to play battlegrounds at all in WoW.  What could be more unfair?

Thus began my utter distaste for twinks.

But I learned...Made a twink...And now I understand.

Twinks are great!

Not because I can pick on lower geared players or give myself some self-righteous BS attitude that I know anything about PvP because I have a twink.

The great thing about twinks is that you truly have an even playing field for PvP combat.  I thrive on twink versus twink battles.  Everyone's gear is fixed at the same level so there are no complaints about one person out-gearing another.  If you lose in twink PvP combat that means the other person actually outplayed you (given certain obvious qualifiers about the particular class advantages there may be).  Congratulate them and learn to play ur toon better or develop better PvP strategies -- no need to spend dozens of hours trying to improve ur gear.

This also means that the casual player can play equally with the 80 hour a week WoW addict.  It takes a short time to make a twink for anyone and then you are done with that toon.  No matter how much time or money that WoW addict tries to devote to their twink, the casual player can make an equally geared one.

This unfortunately leaves the non-twinked players out in the cold as to venues for PvP. But I say to these players, even without twinks, or the goal of twinking, there will always be huge gear differences between you and other players.

The only way you can ensure a fair and fun PvP experience at lower levels is to use equally geared toons.  So get yourself a twink and go have some fun!

i wrote a long rant but i deleted it :D
do what you like in wow but i think twinks make pvp for new players really hard. and also gives the impression that pvp in wow sucks.

Well, other twinks can out gear twinks, you don't see many actually DONE twinks, mine is there, I need one thing and I realise it, but you get someone like my twink Exolauris, or some rogue with duel firey and just clefthide.

Twinks are just part of the game.
How anoying they are sometimes, it's a thing the game can do for you.

I hate it when a BG is full with them, but when I get killed by one thats 10 lvls lower I cant hide a grin, cause I didnt see it comming :)

Dont have one myself (saving up for my epic mount) but will prob make one later.

Grts

CanUCMe

Some twinks are ok but if someone does that all the time and they are pwnning u they suck lol. Twinks are good if u know how to use them.