would it be possible for shamans to off-tank? not in high-end instances of course... but you know... heroics?

think about it...

1. talent tree would obviously be enhancement

They have great parts in enhancement which can help them tank. Some of these are Shield Specialization (Increases block chance by 5% and block amount by 25%), Guardian Totems (possibly to help with damage reduction due to low armor; Increases the amount of damage reduced by Stoneskin and Windwall Totem by 20% and reduces cooldown of Grounding Totem by 2 sec), Thundering Strkies (increases chance to crit by 5% for good DPS), Anticipation (increase dodge chance by 5%), Flurry (increases attack speed by 50% for the next 3 swings after a crit, and w/ Windfury can be very good way to pack up quick agro), Toughness (increases armor value by 10%, less dmg taken), etc. The only thing I would not suggest getting is the tree off of Spirit Weapons because you aren't going to be dualwielding and you cause 15% less agro. 

2. they can use shields, which can help them make up for the loss of armor for using mail armor (which is not the worst armor ever). Getting a good shield w/ spell dmg/ defnese rating would be the biggest priorty, as it helps you out the most w/ armor.


3. They have great melee DPS and some shock spells create a lot of agro. U will only be using a 1h, so you will rely a ot on shocks and occasionally totems.


4. they can off-heal if they need to
If the MT's healers wipe or go OOM, he/she can heal quick.

5. Mail armor is ok... not the best, you would need something to make up for the bad armor (i.e. shield, dodge rating, stamina, etc.)

6. you could go three ways with the attribute build; full on stamina, full on agility, or a hybrid of both

Full on stamina would really be hard work for your healers, as you would not be dodging a lot and taking a lot of damage due to low armor. However, if done right, you can have a massive amount of health to spare.

Full on Agility would be gambling because your healers would need to quick heal because once you are hit, it knocks your health down a lot (even with the + armor). If done right, you can have a great dodge rating and get frequent crits to hold agro.

A hybrid IMO would be the best choice because you get a mix of both attributes... which all Prot Warriors use.


7. Solving the Armor Problem
In order to make up for their horrible armor, they are gonna need some great enchants (+3% agro to gloves, agi/stam/defense rating to armor, etc.)
Agility might help build more armor, but it would not make a huge difference to get all the enchants. Dodge chance would go up though, which would take out a lot of worry for the healers if the % is high enough. Attack Power would help your base DPS which will help you with agro. All in all, agility is must IMO.
Stam would also make the damage inversely proportional, whereas it may do a high #, but a less % of your health.

7. STILL ONLY AN IDEA- Lightning shield spam? It would make you oom fast, and I am not sure if they agro much (have not tested yet), but say if it did agro, would it be worth it when all other things are not needing to be clicked (totems, shocks, etc.)

If anybody has any ideas or suggestions, feel free to say it. I know I might get flamed, but I dont mind as this helps me learn more. But honestly, if you flame, put some good points in it.

I will do more research later, and have an analysis up in a week or so hopefully.

Sincerely,
Juvmonkey

RE: 1st post


I do know that how stormstrike works, but unfortunatley, it cannot be used because in order to get the point, you need to get requires you to get a talent which reduces agro by 15%. That's a big chunk that I do not think that stormstrike could make up for.

plain and simple Enhancement Shaman = kick ass damage. sure u can almost kinda tank when u focusing all ur DPS ASS KICKINGNESS on one target but that just happens. stick to damage dealing

Just as a comparison, I specced Elemental and I have a bunch of +spell crit gear on, my average spell hits are 1k-1.5k and my crits are 2k-4k. I think of myself as an armored mage, mostly. I provide the totems for the casters, like Mana Spring, Wrath of Air, Totem of Wrath, and Stoneskin to keep the squishies alive longer. I basically DPS the entire fight, and spot heal when the Priest/Druid gets LOM... It works out because I don't get that much agro after the MT throws enough Sunders on, and I can hit a level 70 Elite mob for about 5-8k damage per fight, plus some crit heals (16%chance) maybe twice or three times per fight.

I don't think I would try to tank as an Enh. Spec., but I would definately add alot of DPS.

I made a spec once for a shaman tank. It does ok, but lack of a taunt sucks and takes alot of damage. You can do instances with 2 CC but might be alot harder to be able to do some of the harder ones, some heroics might be able to be done, but none of the hard ones. You have to focus on caster stuff, go elemental and enhancement talent. Frost shock is your friend. You can off-tank no problem, be crit immune without defense, but still like most people said its probably better off you dps'ing strait up. With this spec you could off tank and do good elemental DPS but with no threat lowering talents. If you use this off-tank casters which should do you great, kill like skull, then on to the tanks stuff. I works great, but as a strait up tank, I have a druid alt for that.

http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/classes/shaman/talents.html?5323015020301500130005050101550003200000000000000000000000000

Go for caster stats with this guy.

If you are going to tank with him you should Chain Lightning, then Frost Shock Skull as he comes in and kite him for everyone to kill him right off the bat, he really won't make it to you. Use your earthbind totem, focus on X attacking, while still kiting skull every 5 seconds. Drop fire nova tots everytime its up if there is 2 ore more mobs. Your combinations of talents should make your your shocks cost a shocking low cost, use a very fast wepon, to proc flurry like 1.4 or 1.5 max speed your crits make your shocks cost 60% less, Elemental Focus/Elemental Mastery will make your shocks cost 40% less for the next 2 when critting at no mana cost, and give you +9% crit bonus to your melee. When you open with a chain lightning, and a Elemental Mastery/Frost Shock macro, you will get 40% less costs to next 2 shocks, get +9% melee crit then when you melee crit 60% less cost for shocks, with a fast weapon shocks becomes stupidly cheap. The skull will be on you like glue, and you can attack X and use focus macro to keep target on Skull. Get 365 defense so you wont be crushed so much - for use on bosses.

I was thinking along the same lines, but I would think that a shammy that was more resto geared would be a better tank/off tank.  Keep in mind I haven't really tried it but it sounded good in my head, based upon this:

0/13/48 - enhancement talents in 5x shield,5x mana or crit and 3x dodge.  Focused on healing primarily but no talents that reduce threat. 
for restoration:
5x improved healing wave - faster heal
5x tidal focus - cheaper heals
3x Ancestral Healing - 25% armor increase is helpful,especially for self heals, provided your heal crits
5x totemic focus -  cheaper totems
5x healing focus - 70% chance of not being interrupted on heals
5x restorative totems - helps prevent mana/hp loss slightly.  moreover just to get to mana tide
1x mana tide - mana regen/ long fights
1x nature's swiftness -  instant heals, don't know if it creates extra threat being instant, but my guess is it does
5x purification - 10% more effective heals means more life restored and more threat
5x nature's guardian - good for surivivability although it lowers threat.
3x nature's blessing
1x earth shield - 30% lower interruption chance.. awesome heal effect

Individual mobs - For the pull you could use lightningbolt/frost shock and start hitting.  You will have earthshield on at all times of course.  Just continue to use shocks/melee and anything else you can, ie: searing totem.  Healing causes threat too, so self healing with little chance of interruption because of talents occasionally would add threat as well. 

For multiple mobs you could pull with a chain lightning, drop a stoneclaw totem just for the temporary threat and then a fire nova followed by a magma.  Frost Shocking/Meleeing individuals and uninterrupted self heals as well would help. 

Basically I was thinking of this build under the premise of a higher survivability shaman that could self-heal uninterrupted because all the skills needed to keep threat are already there.  They definitely wont be able to compete with a druid or a warrior, and maybe none of the highest instances/raids.  Again, this is just theory not tested at all by me.  I think it would probably involve a lot of down time drinking as well, but could make up for a flexible tank if no other options were available.  I would be glad to hear any suggestions, opinions, flaws or actual knowledge on this build/strategy.

My mistake on the talent spec... its a couple numbers off.

add 5x tidal mastery and pull one from dodge. that makes it 0/12/49

Good idea... Maybe not in heroics but in normal instances

Tanks need taunts

I have tried this before, not by choice though.  Both of our tanks in Kara died and all that was left was myself (ele shammy) and a bunch of clothies.  Even with majorly enhanced spell dmg, there is no way a shammy could hold aggro off the mages and shadow priests in most situations.  Eventhough we did manage to survive a number of clothies went down because I couldn't keep aggro off them even with spamming frost shock.

Shammies can be off tanks for normal instances for heroics i'm not sure. They do draw a lot of damage though in end game mail isn't what it used to be and a elite or 2 can bring down your shammy pretty quickly espeically in heroic.  so armor is a prob , another is they don't have many taunts, rockbiter is a kinda taunt. Weak though and that's it of all i've seen so. Could they? it's possible , though it would be very very hard.

My enhance shammy, no problem, Off-tanks in heroic instances.

Armory link:

http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Wildhammer&n=Katzehund

HOWEVER. Unless your enhance shammy is getting ALL heals/bubbles, They are better off tanking casters.

We mark with an odd raid icon, as I solo the mob. (Using Frost Shock to "TAUNT" -Initial frost shock is crucial to grab aggro- and Earth shocks to int spells) and when I am through, regular kill order, as marked. Yes, Enhance shammies are a viable CC for heroics, just stick to casters, unless you want to wear a shield. If you wear a shield, DPS goes down dramatically, and your class is pretty much useless. Healer goes oom, and possible wipe.

Mobs can be immune to taunts. Frost shock is the shammy taunt, and works very very well to gain initial aggro, and even to pull off a clothie if the tank is not on the ball.

lol i off tamk sometimes not just casters but melee i DO DW for the damage i offtank by killing the mob with otu losing much hp

just kill it before it kills u

If you wanted to tank as Enhancement then you wouldn't take Spirit weapons, which makes you take more damage.

Just saying...

I HAD BRILIANT IDEA!!!!!      How about a troll shaman with sumat like 800 spirit :D

Imagine about 500 dmg per 5 seconds healed and due to xtra regen itl be sumat like 700 and regen in combat 250. that 1 attack per 5 seconds not work in high end things but imagine rfc and u not need healer cause u a bloody regenerator.

Um heres how enhance can off tank:
1. Use fire nove, then SS, then use frost shock which is the spell we have that makes THE most threat.

2. Use earth elemental LOL

(this can be done if your even specced with DW and for damage)