I can't decide whether to go frost or fire

Well if you have the money then fire is fastest to 20-30 your opinion but once you get your AOE spells like blizzard up then frost pretty much rules and in addition at 49 Water Elemental

I like frost more, slowing and freezing allows you to solo even a few lvl higher enemies. I dont like fire, because each spell takes longer to cast, takes more mana and doesnt freeze/slow, just a small chance to stun. Fire only does a slighlty better dmg, if you count the slowed time when enemy is getting to you, doesnt work for long ranged, but then you can use fire as a frost anyways.
IMO frost is the way to go! ^^

fire is for the nukeing, mana drain but high end damage. so if you like drinking then that's for you
frost is the anti gank, loaded with panic buttons such as ice barrier and ice block. also great crits and less mana cost. trickier to pull off though.
built right i'd say frost tbh matey.

Someone already said this but FROST = PVP, FIRE = PVE.

If ur trying to decide spec style because of "resistance" then maybe u shud reroll to a melee class since theres no "resistance" to melee dmg.

FIRE = High output of dmg, drains mana faster but kills mobs faster. Great for endgame 5 mans n 10/25 man raids. Since Fire is pure dmg with very few utils to save ur life, u want to have a tank be the tank allowing u to stay alive so that u can lay out the DPS.

FROST = Middle output of dmg, less mana usuage (to a certain degree) and kills mobs a lil slower but with more defense. Not bad for 5 mans n raids but mainly for solo play and PVP cuz of the many ways to stay alive. They have slow and freeze effects that allow u to continue to cast from range... plus if u get into a melee situation, u have Iceblock, Icebarrier and an extra Nova from ur pet... TIMES 2! (with coldsnap)

In regards to AOE farming with frost being better than fire... true to a certain degree. As fire, you can do TONS of dmg w/o gettin hit. I usually start out with a flamestrike a few yards in front of me, then pull with a blizzard, let them get closer, do a dragons breath to stun them, a blastwave, then nova, then blast with arcane explosions. Granted u need to have ur mana shield up since they may not die right away and fire = squishy. For frost, its not as much dmg but u have a ton of control. The blizzard (if imp) has an extra slow effect that u can continue to use over n over till they get to u in which u nova, blink away, n start over. If nova is on CD, u pop ur pet n gain an extra nova.

In regards to PVE single player dmg... It still favors the fire since the added crit n spl dmg is nice but done right, the frost mage can be right up there. With the chances of crits higher when frozen, i can get close to what i was criting as fire. Plus its at a higher rate. Sure the reg non crits are a bit less as frost, but the frozen crits are nice. Once ur into a group or a raid, frost becomes weak cuz of the fact that mobs do not stay frozen when they are hit hard... If ur slow to cast a frostbolt or a melee/range hits the mob b4 u, then it may break the freeze effect makin ur frostbolt just the same as if they wernt. Trick to being a frost mage in groups/raids? Icelance. Freeze or nova'd, use ur ice lance to get that extra crit dmg in.

Overall, fire is easier to play and does great dmg. BUT, if u like more difficulty in learning "how to play" and want both controll n good dmg, go frost.

FROST FTW

Just my comment.

Im a fire mage but speced with 10/xx/7 while leveling.

10 in acrane for max arcane concentration
7 in forst for improved frost nova and reduction of the cooldown

The rest into fire.

Frost is probaly better to AOE grind, but man its a nice damage output using the fire tree. I felt so overpowered against mobs 1-2 lvl beneath me. And its also good to AOE grind.

And yes, fireresistant mobs is a pain, but I use, Arcane missiles, Frost nova, arcane missiles, CoC or simply frost bolts.

Well i have a lvl 45 mage on Echo Isles and he is speced for fire till 40 for combustion(lays down the crits)and then arcane till 61 so i get presence of mind then can't decide to put 2 more in fire so i get boosted crits, put last points into frost or keep them for expansion.

I have tried both frost and fire out on my mage, currently lvl 61.
Frost is good if you want to solo and end up with more health after a fight. Fire is also good for soloing and has amazing DPS and kills very quickly. I have all my talents into fire. I can kill things 2 or 3 lvls higher than me, you just have to eat and drink. If you dont the fact you have to do that then the mage is not for you. If you want to do groups then go fire, just have a tank with you other wise you will pull aggro real quick.

A tip when you get higher and are a fire mage:
1. Pyroblast
2. Fireball
3. Fire Blast (Instant cast)
4. Blast Wave
5. Dragon Breath
6. Frost Nova
7. Back up out of melee range
8. Any fire spell you want

Kills thing fast, I have a pretty good crit chance and combustion really helps out with it.

I would also like to add for fire mages, that my patern for killing things in solo and in instances involve the use of a  few talent points into improved scorch. 15% increase to fire damage can be very helpful against bosses in 5 mans and raids. Fire can be as good as frost in 5 mans as long as you WATCH YOUR AGGRO. It takes time to learn how much your dps'ing well, and as long as your tank is not a totally dummy, you should always be alright.

pyro
fireball
scorch (x1-4)
fireblast
target=dead
if target does not= dead then
frost nova
back up
fireball
fire blast
target's dead.
you can always use dragons breath to finish the job if its still not dead... GL to all the other fellow vending machines out there... i mean mages :p

kk wait, thats all good but what if your target is already attacking you, what should i do frost nova then back up pyro/ fireball, then some instant casts, wait for frost nova and repeat?

u could always use POM to make pyroblast instant. heres an easy way to kill mobs:

1. pyroblast
2. POM-pyroblast
3. fireblast
4. blast wave
(most things r dead by now, if not keep reading)
5. frost nova
6. blink, any direction that doesn't put u into a mob is fine
7. fireball
8. fire blast
(if still not dead, reroll to another class or...)
9. cone of cold
10. scorch(1x-4x)
11. fireblast

if u still cant kill stuff with that list, maybe u should try a different class, probably loc

definately disagree with bloody candle on the pull sequence.

never start pull with a pyro because you will pull aggro off your tank if it crits high enough, kind of contradictory to you all caps DONT PULL AGGRO OF THE TANK thing.

start with scorches let your tank build up aggro.

i would put 10 points in fire for pyro so ice resisters want give you a pain in the ass but if u are kill some 1 thet is resistant to both fire and ice go wich ice arcane ice to slow and arcane missles

A fire mage with cumbustion talent can easily take out mobs his level with 2 spells, just pyro then fireball, fire blast and frots nova + fireball in neccesary

Wow, does that make any sense? PPL need to go back to school =/...

First off, there are mobs that resist fire, and mobs that resist frost... You cant pick which spec based on that cuz ull NEVER be able to pls both. As many others stated already, the spec u need depends on what u wanna do... PVP or PVE. As fire, u can pvp, but its alot tougher. Sure ur dps will be higher, but trust me... you die alot more. I mostly focus on healers n clothies on all my pvp chars, just fyi. With frost, you have more defensive talents that can help u stay alive, which in turn does = more dmg. Plus PVE as frost isnt that bad either. At this time, Id say frost is best since it has a nice balance for both PVE n PVP. Fire is nice, but the lack of control and the pure nuking makes in mainly for PVE.

IMO, if u choose PVE, go fire only. Some of the latter talents are very nice and help with ur dmg tons. If PVP, go frost/arcane for imp CS. You dont "need" this spell, but it sure does come in handy against casters n healers... and trust me, u will use it alot.

As for spell sequence:

Fire - scorch x5, combustion, pyro, fire blast, fireball, dragons breath, blastwave, fireblast, fireball, etc. Make sure to give the tank enough time to grab aggro of course, and if you choose to nuke this way, make sure ur keeping an eye on omen.
Frost - Frost bolt, fire blast, frostbolts (If ur target gets frozen from ur Frostbolt, spam ice lance till the frost breaks. you can get lucky and crit a few times at 150 mana each!)

The spell sequences depend on ur tanks aggro and how well u can maintain n build them. You should ALWAYS watch ur threat meter and make sure u dont nuke too hard... if youre nuking.

If ur facing lower lvls, how do u not finish them off with all those spells? Unless ur weak of course... And also, you have AM, FRB, PYRO, FIB, FRB (if time)... how does the mob not hit u 10 times before u even get to cast the 1st firebolt? AM = 8 secs right? FRB = 2.5 (if spec'd) Pyro = 6... thats almost 17 secs. Are you saying it takes a mob 17 secs to get to you? And if so, again with 3 buff spells used, on a lower mob too, you cant kill them? Dude thats just sad. And i know ur not talkin about a boss since u put down nova.

Also to Bigbog up above, you kill sequence shows:

1. Pyroblast
2. Fireball
3. Fire Blast (Instant cast)
4. Blast Wave
5. Dragon Breath
6. Frost Nova

Why would u do a nova after a DB? The DB gives u a 2 sec window to blink away and start a cast. I would say:

1 Pyro
2 Fire
3 Fire
4 Fire blast
5 DB
6 Blast wave
7 Nova

And this is if u dont have enough DPS to take them down by the 3rd or 4th spell.

Also, i know everyone has mentioned their cast order and it seems to me that everyone is "nuking" to a certain degree. And this is fine, i listed a few combos myself so w/e. Its great for soloing and takin down mobs fast. BUT, thats not what i wanna talk about here. Its the debate about fire/frost and the mana efficiency. Whether ur fire or frost, if the kill sequence is pure nuke, it doesnt matter what spec you go. Both will do a very good amt of dmg and can kill very fast. Only problem here is that when ppl say Fire = worse mana usuage as Frost... untrue. If you nuke, you use mana. If ur kill sequence requires u to use many spells, ur mana will be used either way. And sure killing them fast is great n all but how many of u like the lower rank water u get? Even thru 70, the water is crap compared to my mana pool. I think when you guys reach 70, you will start to understand how much it sux to "drink" and u will start being a lil more efficient. Although killing fast is nice, the downtime is gay. Instead of looking at how fast u can kill, i would recommend looking at how many mobs u can kill in 5/10 mins while nuking and then see how many u can while not nuking. With proper usuage with wands and "correct" pulling, you can still do very good dmg n last a lot longer with ur mana. Just a thought...

While true, i totally agree on the pulls of those guys up there, they just may just have absolutely terrible SD.

Now on the subject of Fire/Frost i agree and disagree, Yes point taken on a 6 frostbolt kill opposed to a 3 fireball kill,
the thing is that when at my lvl i will spend almost  mana  on 410 on each FB and 295 on each frostbolt. The difference maker is the frost bolts crits. When i crit two bolts in a row or two on anything my lvl, they are dead with the third.

This all would also apply to how much spell damage and crit your char has which i will succumb to in this discussion.

But in the end, even though it will take less fire spells to kill anenemy, in raiding frost is more efficent since you dont three shot enemies.

Well fire has more crit whereas frost has more stam n survivability. Sure the frost has a higher chance to crit when mobs are frozen, but thats when theyre frozen. Your example of 3 FBalls to 6 FBolts, I dont think its the best, but i do know what ur saying. You said if u were to crit twice with frost, theyre usually dead by the 3rd. Although this is true... i do it myself (frost ftw), who says u dont crit twice as fire? I mean after all, fire does have more crit than frost. And who knows, maybe i play wrong but when i go farming, i usually start with a Frostbolt, spam till they get close n nova. Then a frostbolt n icelance to get that double crit (usually 2 b4, nova, then bolt n icelance = dead). So... if u calculate lets just say 2 bolts, 1 nova, 1 bolt n 1 icelance, its roughly the same as 3 or 4 balls. (I havnt added it, but i assume so.)

As far as raids go, yes ur right. Mobs are definitly not low HP, except for the AOE mobs. BUT u forget that most of fire dps comes from reg hits and crits whereas a frost mage gets most thru just crits. And for a frost to have a high crit rate, the mob being atked has to be frozen. If not, ur looking at w/e ur current crit rate is in which the fire mage would win. So if the mob has to be frozen for u to crit, but theres 6 or 19 other guys hittin the same mob, chances are that u wont be able to get a crit off when its frozen.

Well, im not saying go fire cuz i love frost (now) but i cant say fire sux or that frost does more dmg. Back to the simple basic's, FIRE = PVE, FROST = PVP.

Oh yea, when i was fire, i didnt have much SD and still did very nice dmg and some huge crits. I think i had 34% crit w/ fire spells. As frost, my crit is far lower and same for dmg. BUT, i noticed that with some more SD, i am starting to hit just as hard as i did as fire with only about a 150 SD increase. Sure if i had that extra SD as fire id be hittin harder... but since i didnt experience it, i cant really compare. Plus i dont wanna think about goin back since ive spent so much time n $$ into gettin my frozenweave set =P.

Gonna make my mage frost, and reason for this is twofold, 1 I hated with my previous mage dying all the time as fire (human mage then, BE mage now, I gave up on my human mage) and I beleve it would actually save levelling time not constantly dying rather than over-killing the target. And I hate to drink (cos I have a lock, you may call us noobs, but at least I dont have to drink), frost mage seems to have much better mana conservation.

the thing is if u r figthing other casters you want to use fire because it dosent matter if u slow the down .But if u r figthing melee ppl like warrior paly or rogue u want to be frost to slow the down

Ok after reading all of this, this is what i have to say
Once u hit lvl 50, i would personally go to frost just because the water element helps you out a ton. I can easily take 3 mobs at a time with the help of my water element. On top of that, you can also have 4 frost novas with the combination of your water element, your frost nova, and cold snap, and me being an engie has even a 5th one with ice nades. That makes grinding and questing a lot easier. Once you hit lvl 70, you have pretty much 3 options. Fire/arcane, fire, or frost. If u wana just run endgame instances all day like kara, i would invest my talents into fire/arcane or fire. U can do the most dps that way. I personally pvp and run the arena, so i am frost specced, which i think is a little better than fire for arena, simply because of ice block to remove dots, ice barrier, and element, and even cold snap to do it all over again.

Theres all i have to say.

    Fire or Frost?  Arcane.  With just enough frost talent to get your chill effect on blizzard.  Be it PVP or PVE Arcane pretty much pwns face. 

    I went from PoM+Pyro to Deep Frost before trying arcane and I can tell you the damage output plus all the slowing/silencing rocks.  The Slow spell decreases casting, ranged and movement speeds by 50% with no cooldown and it's an instant!  (Also works on bosses BTW) Which can completely turn the tide of a battle. 

    Granted I miss a lot of the quick, high damage hits of fire,  But I def dont run out of mana as often as I did with the other specs and I can survive more situations, with PoM+Sheep, Slow and Invis you can escape just about anything. :) 

    I say give Arcane a try, or at least factor in the 21 Points to get you PoM with one of the elementals.  Arcane is a very effective tool that has been overlooked by so many.

As Fire mage if you get jumped you poly/sheep mob, get range pyro etc etc etc. If the mob is not sheepable and of a manageble level (within 2 levels) I personally Scorch, Dragonsbreath, Scorch, Nova, back up Scorch, Fireball, fireblast (get hit 2 maybe 3 times). If the mob is not sheepable and too high level you run that simple.

ppl ppl, frost and fire pinns them and kills them, thats what my build does and i see more and more ppl doing frost and fire cuase one day you'll be staring down the barrel of a tauren warrior armed to the teeth with fire resistant gear or the next day a arcane mag with full friost resist gear, whatya gunna do then eh punk?.
obvoiusly ppl r aware of resistant mobs, but know frost and fire do help eachother just as arcane does for fire and frost, experiment, you ain't going to kara that quick ;)

Best spec for me is 40 fire 21 frost, that s the most all around spec I ve tried so far. I used to be elemental too with 51 points spec and when tbc was released I skipped to frost spec like most of elemental mages did cuz obliviously ice lance and water element balanced the lack of dps of ice.
But anyway as it was said before fireball is better than frostbolt for pve. If i need to slowdown an opponent or a mob from far I use frosbolt rank 1, I have improved frost nova, frosbyte, permafrost, cold snap and of course iceblock so I can make it very well in pvp and I still have the mad dps of fire for pve.
The only negative point: ignite do not stack anymore. It s really sad, when you cast fireball then fireblast on frosted mobs you only get the ignite of one spell and as fireblast comes before fireball it results a crappy ignite. Better than nothing I supose.

think hes probs talking bout soling m8 as mages dont usually pull in an instance.

In my opinion, fire is offensive, and frost is defensive.

Aeria
51 fire mage
<Nightmare>

Played mage for ages. Fire or frost? hard to tell, its a lot about play style, but not much im dmg/dps. Fire was far better than frost, in raid and pvp be4 TBC, but now after, there is really not a diffrent.

There is a lot thats talking about how they cast, i died half way, frost mage, frost bolt, ice lance till they get close, fire mage, use sorch. If specced right, it keep boosting ur fire dmg to 15% i think it is.

At 70, you have no idea how much mana you use if you havent tryed, you cant get mana back while fighting like other caster, S-priest have vampic tutch, lock drain life, lifetrap. shammys, well they just dont use a lot of mana (got one of em too) But as a mage, fight 3-5 min, spend a min drinking, minimum. Said in another way, you can end up using 25% of you time drinking, offen a mana pool works for 3-4 mobs.

And off tropic, and pre-TBC mages that fell we have been nerfed a bit to much, dont enjoy playing mage anymore.

And sorry for bad spelling.

Badgor

i have a lvl 62 frost mage and i can easyly kill  2-5 lvls higher then me!!!! 
i admit that frost is mostly defense but with ur pet u kill way faster then fire.

but thats just me it maybe a bit different for others

u are going to have some things that are resistant to frost and others resistant to fire.

if u find some that are resistant to ur spec just use the opposite one to hitt em with
                          eg.        resistant to fire use frost
                                      resistant to frost use fire

its that simple it doesnt matter wot ur spec is!!!

lol arcane does not pwn pvp nor does fire.. in a bg yes maybe you can hide behind melee and healers but in arena arcane would get raped in 2 secs flat. same as fire. frost is by far the best for pvp the frostbolt/icelance combo with a water elementals frost nova is about 6k dmg plus fireblast and coc means about 9-10k dmg      in a very short space of time.
simple go 17/0/44 for arena imp cs is essential to nuke that annoying healer and stop that sp or lock sucking you dry.
fire and arcane are for better for hardcore pve and thats it really. anything else. farming, pvp, lvling = frost

OK. As Extremus, a 70 mage from executus, i both tried all the spec thousands of times.

Around level 60, i was fire and arcane because i could 2 shot a rogue my level. Pyro PoM pyro of course.

But, as soon as i get to outlands, there is alot of higher level then you and as frost you have bigger chances to live and to escape. In instances, people like you because you are frozing the mobs and preventing them from reaching the dps classes to fast. Im keyed from kara and did it only 1 time. In high level raids, they need both fire and both frost. I can solo 3 or 4 mobs my level without taking any dmg. My elemental helps alot since it hits 600 normal dmg and 1k crits.

Fire is really fun too. It allows to kill mobs really fast and 1 shoting lower levels when you are ganking. The only thing i dont like with fire is the high cost of mana and slow casting. But fire is doing hell dmg so its fine.

The choice between fire and frost depends on what you would like to do. I suggest starting your talents with frost as you are low level and then think about trying fire later. When you are 70, you will try both. But.. just a tip, dont respec too much becuz i respeced 5 times between frost and fire tailoring and it costs over 1000 g.. so choose carefulley.

- Dukirby - 70 mage executus - extremus

I should take fire Becuase I have a mage lvl 70 and POM Pyro and DEEP frost mages are really lazy and ppl with that are ''I can't play mage spec'' only thing you have to do is frostbolt and icelance nothing more1 :D

lol, how many fire mages have you seen pwning in pvp? and how many arcane mages? not many. there may be someone who has imba skills who can use that effectivly. but really frost is the best for pvp simple. no arguing.. theres no point we are talking about a proven fact until blizz does something. as for a 10% chance for a reflect of my frostbolt from frost ward... lol. thats hardly a reason not to spec frost in pvp.

as for banishing my pet? have you ever heard of counter spell. yes locks are hard but not impossible to kill. dont make such naabish comments on a forum which is meant to help people who dont know what to do.

ahh the 'ol frost or fire dilemma..
FROST==> good for soloing, good for pvp

as said over and over again, there's a much greater chance of survival with frost, which translates to more dmg. i would hold off going into frost until u can get the better talents (ice barrier, elemental, etc.) though winter's chill does increase crit chance, stacking up to 5 times giving and 10% increased crit chance with frost spells, it's not often fights in lvl 70 dungeons and raids last that long. therefore, dps is compromised, which is critical in raids. as and arcane/fire mage, i raided with a frost mage with roughly the same dps as me, i nearly doubled the dps she was putting out

FIRE==> good for lvling, good for end game raids and instances

fire is hardcore dmg. there have been many increases to the frost tree to help with dmg, but not nearly enough to keep up with a fire mage. i went into fire for end game raids, and i am regularly on top of the dps charts, granted a threat meter keeps u from pulling agro. fire can be fun for pvp, but be prepared to die a LOT.  as for lvling, frost jus isn't good til further down the tree where u get increased dmg and the fun spells.

i chose 40/21/0 to help with mana pool, plus 50% increased crit dmg bonus