i easily to out dps better geared hunter then me since most i see are marks and i get there buff  : )

BM great for lvling not great for instances.
main point of BM makes your pet a mini tank on roids so its doing great dps but at a cost you dont do as much as u could w/ another spec. with this spec doesnt rly rely on your gear so as u get better gear your dps wont go up as much.

BM can help in pvp for a quick stun and immunity from CC (save alil mana while your at it) putting all of your hopes into your pet making it like a

survival / marks set up pvp / pve

  wvyrn sting / +crit / crit bonus / detterence for pvp / instant finish of all hunter abilities / mana back almost all the time from critting / + crit abilities to humanoids (beasts dragons ect...)

chance on hit to increase your crit% by 6% and also expose armor procs off of your ranged crits giving all attackers even more AP

straight up marks spec minus what a good survival/mark spec would have

  scatter shot / AP aura (benifets everyone but doesnt stack thus not getting as much group leetness from having 2 mark specs in one group) silencing shot (mainly pvp but has its uses)/

thats about it compare and learn

ive tested out all of these specs for an extremely long time and put alot of work into finding out what i can do it increase my over all dps and found that a good survival / mark spec was best for me. you might not feel the same way, test them out its your toon after all i can only guide i cant force

remember its your account spec the way you want for max fun


my hunter can be found on armory under yummypower not the best gear but good spec not perfected spec but i like it alot may respec and get go for the throat but we will see

I'm sorry, sir. Your a dumbass. I am too enraged at the moment to tell you about how incredibly stupid you are so I will fill it in later. (this is at OP btw)



Some Basics on hunter specs:

BM is the highest single target raid dps spec, and gives the highest DPS increase to the group. Some fights your pet will die frequently, some your pet will not be able to dps constantly, others your pet will need 100% uptime on mend pet, and some are totally pet friendly. The rotation for a BM hunter is very simple, but you have to monitor your pet and control them properly during a fight.

Survival gives the most benefit to the raid (Expose Weakness), and does damage comparable to MM. The caveat being that you need a 3.0 weapon preferably, and over 600 agility. You stack agility, based on the average ap given by EW with uptime considered multiplied by the number of physical dps in the raid. Count a BM hunter as 1.4, and a SV hunter as 1.2 as a rough guideline.

MM does damage comparable to a BM hunter keeping mend pet up with 100% uptime. It gives the smallest benefit to grouped players of all the hunter specs. It also gives no benefit to the raid.

As far as mana efficiency goes, BM is also the most mana efficient. IAotH should reduce your ideal weapon speed from 1:1.5 to 1:1 as BM. You just need to carefully monitor these things.

Do NOT listen to people spouting crap about MM being superior (this means you :P). It is a 5 man and PvP spec, because it brings nothing/very little to raids.

So a breakdown of dps: Survival is pitiful DPS compared to both BM and MM. BM and MM are on par if you know what you're doing, with BM taking a slight lead on pet friendly encounters, and MM taking a slight lead on pet unfriendly ones. (This is with the best available gear of course)




Some wowwebstat examples:
BM outdoes MM:
http://wowwebstats.com/izmhf5mxnymo5?s=13503-13810
again:
http://wowwebstats.com/qoj5mbbxn6mmo?s=7548-8236
and again:
http://wowwebstats.com/yllf22jcuoo2a?s=4852-5100
and again:
http://wowwebstats.com/kce3c1lvpcr4q?s=5300-5789
and again...: http://wowwebstats.com/izmhf5mxnymo5?s=13503-13810
and again: http://wowwebstats.com/q2nyux6exlbuc?s=880-1119

*will rant more if necessary*

LOL cool down... he isnt telling u what to spec he is just offering what he has learned in hope that you may learn somthing new lighten up

good stuff survival / mm is best at big raids. not many ppl realise that. obvserving your spec (yummypower) its safe to say you like to pvp and are starting raiding might respec out of the pvp stuff once you get a chance though GL.




------------------------------------
Funny how noobs think beast spec will out dps everything else what else is funny seeing ret pallies out dps them ^_^

I will not cool down :D. He is terribly wrong, as are you. I'm not trying to be an ass about it but I don't want people to leave these forums with false information.

/agree with overkil

As a BM hunter I top dmg in 25 man raid despite being under geared to the other two hunters in my guild.

You get extra shots as a beast master hunter quite frequently.  You shoot 3 shots to every 2 of a marksman hunter (my fellow hunters looked at how many arrows were shot after a raid, and we all have sunfurry bow). 

I read it somewhere else and I'll repeat it again... It's your account, Spec your Hunter the way you want!

With my money, I spec'd 5/55/0. 2 Reasons..
1) my quest partner was BM spec and we just complimented each other.
2) another Hunter in guild was already SV Spec.

With 3 Hunters together, each Spec different we all recieve the benefits of each other.

My 3 favorite things of MM Spec?
1) Trueshot Aurora: Buffs +100 AP to all within a 40yd range.
2) Silence Shot: Shuts up the casters for 3 sec. If you are in PvP and there is a fighter class that you just cannot seem to get enough DPS on because of constant heals, Hit the healer with a Silence Shot, move in close and as soon as that wears off, Hit him with a Scatter Shot. Will give the rest of your battle group enough time to Kill the DPS Monger that was getting the heals.
3) Hunters Mark +4: Buffs 110 AP to all party who attack that target. +11 AP for every successful ranged attack against that target. Adds up quick when you have multiple hunters engaging same target (Galvan).

There is a MAJOR drawback to MM: Too much damage in Solo PvE! Hear me out... In theory I send pet in as tank, I open with an Aimed Shot for 2400 Crit, I pull the aggro. Warrior goes in to tank, I open with a 2400 Crit Shot, followed with a 2K Aimed shot... I pull aggro off tank.. I stand there and do nothing waiting to make sure Warrior has full aggro before I attack.... Get kicked out of raid group for standing there looking stupid while everybody else is actively engaging target.

I did quest in Shadowmoon with a fellow MM Hunter, It was actually fun, as long as we stayed far apart from each other. I would crit shot and pull aggro, engage in Melee. She would crit shot and pull aggro, engage in Melee, Rinse & repeat until Mob was dead.

If there was 1 almighty Spec, every Hunter in WoW would be the same Spec. Each has an advantage, see what your guild/raid group/ arena team needs and hopefully you can master that Spec and be a beneficial addition to the team.

I can only soapbox from a MM perspective, that is all I have done for 6 months. I was hybrid spec for a while, but informed to spec out primarily in 1 category. I respected to MM except for 5 points in Endurance Training (Pet health +10%/ My Health +5%). AND... I'm not impressed with those 5 points spent when I could have taken Concussive Shot +5. Oh well, too cheap to spend the 40G to Re-spec....again.

Redneckizm
Hakkar
/soapbox off

I like it when people tell you their character as well.  It all makes sense now.  You haven't been on a raid with that character.  There is no way.

A misdirect before you fire those crits would keep agro on your tank as well.  It has a cool down of 2 mins so you are most likely to have it back up before the next pull.  And you don't begin shooting for a few seconds to give the tank threat anyway (invest in a threat meter like ktm or omen).


myhotsauce
aggramar

(in case you want to check my gear, PVP set and PVE set...)

im 70 MM hunter and

since lvl 60 i change spec from BM to MM and now i love more like this...its just a personnal choose.. these 2 spec are good..

whit my gear (few epic and other blue) i have these stats..

673-808 damage
1.67    speed
2004    attack power
39      hit rating
20.57%  criti rating...
7/42/12 (not best build but still good..)


my persoonnal record whit GUN its a Aimed shoot criti 5241 ..

all ur choose... good luck

Point well taken. I did some quick research here on Thot and I do need to find a spot on my Hotbar to add this for AV, everything on my Hotbar is geared toward Solo questing.

You are correct, My raid experience is very limited, The only "Raid" group I have participated was a successful PuG on Ysondre and that was at lvl 65, then we went to Tarren Mill "just cuz" they P.O'd us for raiding Southshore so often and then onto Hammerfall just for Shatz-n-giggles, most of the group was leaving so we played around in The Crossroads until we got bored, just for a change of scenery.

Side Note: Can't really call it a Raid Group, More like mass chaos PvP defending IF when the Horde frequently organize thier unsuccessful Raid groups, they usually don't make it passed the Bank/AH area. I do enjoy logging into IF and there are piles of skeletons everywhere :)

My WoW time is normally limited to 1- 1.5 hrs at a time. Enough to get in 2-3 BG's or a couple quests and call it a night. Not enough time to make any of the long instances or Raid Groups.

I had to look thru the book 3 times before I found the "Misdirect" shot, There is only a Rank 1 and it was hidden amongst all the others...

Yes, This works extremely well! I wish I had noticed it a long time ago, would have saved me a couple "corpseruns".

Thank you for the advice... Back to the BG's

I started my first hunter today.  Wow, I should have done a hunter first.  What an easy class to play...but it's early in the gaming.

Have to /agree with Ovrkill.  But for a different reason.  Although I'm starting my first hunter, I get MM.  No big deal.  I know the standard shorthand.

Hjbvlj (is that a word / name?!?) you have TERRIBLE grammar skills.  I hav No Fkng clue WTF you are talking about.

Hey Hjbvlj, chair running by the bird pencil because of PvP.

MAKES NO FKNG SENSE.  Neither do you.

SPEAK ENGLISH PPL!  GEEZ-US.

the forum is alil one sided but by no mean "wrong" ...

as BM u have to keep a close eye on your pet and what is going on or your pet will die leaving you missing alot of dps


MM you give everyone extra dps (not that BM doesnt but that waste of points doesnt rly help dps all that much)

and as survival its more of an all around well built class and seeing how alot of ppl are MM already having two aura shots in the same party is rly pointless

...You are correct about the pet part, but every hunter should really be keeping an eye on their pet.

MM give the worst group buff of the three specs. BM increases damage dealt by 3% (that is a decent amount) every single time their pet crits. It is by no means a waste of points and is essential to any BM raiding build. The ONLY purpose for a SV hunter in a raid is EW (Expose Weakness), so no.

I am a MM specced hunter, and i enjoy it. Sure, my pet doesn't survive very long, but i still can survive without him.

One bad thing about BM, is if your pet dies, you die. If your MM, your pet can die, and you can kite the hell out of the dude (scatter shot is useful for this).
But really, there is no tree that is best. BM is good for leveling. MM does better DPS (in my opinion), and SV is better for PvP, on account of increased melee damage, traps, ect.
So, specc your hunter the way you want to, and enjoy your character!

[Horde]
Spinebreaker
Mastol-65 Hunter

[quote]I am a MM specced hunter, and i enjoy it. Sure, my pet doesn't survive very long, but i still can survive without him.

One bad thing about BM, is if your pet dies, you die. If your MM, your pet can die, and you can kite the hell out of the dude (scatter shot is useful for this).
But really, there is no tree that is best. BM is good for leveling. MM does better DPS (in my opinion), and SV is better for PvP, on account of increased melee damage, traps, ect.
So, specc your hunter the way you want to, and enjoy your character!

[Horde]
Spinebreaker
Mastol-65 Hunter[/quote]

We are talking about raid dps :), so you were not completely on-topic and had a few inaccuracies concerning PvP etc. However, I'm glad you brought up the enjoyment of your spec and character :). That is, after all, what a game is for; having fun.

ya i guess we shouldn't argue about specs.....we choose our own but if your looking for highest dps BM is the way to go...41/20/0 FTW!

WOW

ill say this once and only once...BM against ANY1 else with = gear will out DPS ANY OTHER CLASS period!!!!

0vrkil,

I just respecced to survival.  I get over 800-900 agility in raids.  32% Crit (unbuffed) 36-38% (buffed) and when MT procs im at 50% chance to crit.  And I absolutely destroy BM hunters with their little 20% attack speed increase.  DESTROY! So I'm going to go ahead bash your specc.. and tell you that being a BM hunter takes Zero skill.  Yes it has its benefits and good DPS, but if your geared enough for Survival (I recommend atleast 620+ agi) then go Survival.  It owns PvE and PvP.  I own casters because they stay trapped and they stay Slept until I feel like wakeing them up.  Plenty of DPS and plenty of CC.  Plenty. 

But if your going for arena 2's and 3's, hit BM specc up, but for everything else.  Take the time to get skilled in Marks or Surv.  Cause thats what the real man specc is. 

Oh and 0vrkil.. post your armory, Mr. God of Hunters.

    Sugaman what is your specc i would like to see it it since you are so awesome at raiding (no sarcasm implied).

i did not read any of the posts here, i just want to say i agree, BM from 10-69

then try the others out depending on what you like to do or your role in raids / bg

while i agree with a bit of what everyone says, i have a mix of both trees. now i know the argument right, i don't fully spec in anything so it's a mistake. Whatever the argument, i have all the benefits of BM with the exeption of beast within, and i have 30 points in MM.

i don't get why everyone keeps saying as a BM you have to pay so close attention to your pet. as a full specced BM as i was for a long time, you have improved armor rating and health, improved mend pets, spirit bond, etc, things that all help to keep your pet alive with much greater ease whether it's PVE or an instance. in any event though, i may not have the greatest dps since i'm a hybrid, but in bg's, raids, PVE, i have a real nice mix of skills from both trees that allows me to CC as well as dps the hell out of someone.

perect scenario, i'm in EOTS bg last night, heading from MT to Fel Reaver tower, i'm by myself and a lock and mage start heading towards me side by side. btw, thanks to the toolbags that were all standing around who watched me solo 3 horde by myself. in any evnt, the mage and lock hop off their mounts, i instantly send my pet after the lock, he uses fear, i'm just a tad bit out of its casting range so i run into range, start pummeling the mage with all my shots, pop beastial wrath, freeze the locks minion. now the mage was an idiot, because he was trying some sort of a spell with a long casting time obviously because i beat him down in 15-20 seconds with all my instant shots, didn't fire anything with any kind of casting time. so i kill the mage, quickly turn to the lock, his minion comes after me, i use scattershot, concussive which ended up knocking him out for 3 seconds, and by the time that wears off, he's dead.probably took me a minute to kill them both. i'm at 60% health now, i stop for a good 20 seconds to pop a bandage on, here comes a blood elf MM cuz i see he's got trueshot active. he barely gets within range, i've got a trap down to freeze his cat which works. he freezes my cat, but by this time, my beastial wrath has already charged, i pop it again, cat breaks free from the trap, and i proceed to mop the floor with this little flamer looking guy in another 10 seconds tops.

now ya, i saw that he hit me with some real nice shots, averaging 700-800 per hit while i was hiting for around 600-650. but without any BM, his cat sat and watched from his frozen little prison,lol, able to do nothing while i continued to pummel him and my cat broke free since i had BW. he hit me with scatter, i hit him with it right back. so ya, i didn't have trueshot or some of the added AP that's such a benefit from MM, but i took down 3 enemies by myself, back to back without breaking a sweat. now maybe he had some crappy gear, but he probably had the same set as me. i could see he had his glad helm and shoulders, so it's not like i had him overmatched on gear either.

i think every tree has its added benefits of course, but nomatter what, i have to agree with some of the guys and say that BM is still worth every last point that you spend. especially in bg's, there's absolutely no comparison. MM go down faster than Monica Lewinksy went down on ol' Bill Clinton. i could care less that MM gives you an extra 200ap over me, cuz when it comes down to it and we're staring each other face to face, i freeze your cat and you're all alone with your MM skills, how the hell you gonna out dps me when i pop BW and my cats tearing you up while i'm trashing you from 30 yards away and you can barely even get a shot off. Time after time, i tear through MM, and it's not cuz i'm so dam good or because i have fantastic gear. i'm a middle of the road player, good, not great, with decent gear. so what i'm doing isn't uncommon at all. i jsut get pissed when i hear that BM is gret for leveling, but in instrances and PVP MM dominates

Here is how I have countered BM spec with decent success.

1 when you see incoming pet turn growl on attack pet with your pet, if the hunter has on aggressive it should bite on your growl.

2. cast scare beast, as it runs away pull my cat off and put it on the hunter.

3. Lay freezing trap, if the cat makes it back.

4. Then it is a straight gun fight


Does not work all of the time, I guess when it did not beast within was not on cooldown.

Generally for every measure there is a counter measure there is no "I win" button.