*Basing info from what I've seen from my 70 warrior and my 40 pally*

Guys I've have been wondering why finding a good ret pally (no offense) is like trying to find a needle in a haystack. I mean you guys got basically everything you could want for a pvp melee class. You got two long ranged stuns(rogue status), you decrease like attributes by like 20% on average every 4 hits, you have probably the most sickest burst dmg like 180 percent dmg with seal of command and and sanctity aura and probably something even bigger later, you almost never have to worry about movement impairing unless its a long fight(a druid key feature), the probably biggest and most versatile set of buffs in WoW, your mana conservative, heals, and bubbles. Yet I see ret pallys consistent get owned in PvP. Of course I occasionally see that one ret pally who could blow everybody out of the water but thats too far and in between. So can anybody tell me why good ret pallys are so rare.

i honestly think its b/c there is ALOT to learn about ret pallys and its alot different from playing other classes. Blizz changes us around almost every patch and that makes things difficult..i would hope to think that i'm a good ret pally though..keep all the appropiate blessings on every1, judge wisdom/light on boss so every1 gets healed when they melee them. and heal when the healer is knocked out of the fight..and on top of that im still 1st or 2nd in dps. just ran slabs last night and SH the night before (just turned 70 not to long ago)

I'd say it's probably because they're not efficiently using their skills against what they're fighting, PvP wise. I was a 32 pally last night doing my Arathi Basin PvP quest, and during the battle I took out 2 rogues at 34 and 36, a shammy at 36, and a warrior at 38. So I think it's all a matter of looking at what you're fighting and what approach works best. I would guess a lot of people just get into a routine (probably from PvE) and then have a hard time adapting to the battlefield where things change.

Of course, stuff like armor and connection come into play somewhat too. (I.E., if you're lagging or out-armored, it gets a lot harder obviously.)

Like the other guy said, there's a lot of aspects to work with, so testing them is good. Routine is bad.

You know tbh, youre right. There are alot of ret pallies out there, n most are pretty nub. This could be because of a few possibilities... The above mentioned that maybe its lack of knowledge, they dont have the experience to use what we are given. Looking at the 2 responses above, this would be a prime example. 2 ppl that prolly have not played more than 20 days, giving out their pvp/pve experience at lower lvls, not knowing the endgame content and how it differs from "lowbie" lvls. Yes, sonce blizz does screw us over alot, we do have to adapt to the changes made n try out new strats, but for the most part, it is the same thing. Although we are given many talents/spells that seem to be OP to some, its mostly on the skill lvl and the knowledge of WHEN to use them that makes the good ones stand out past the nubs. Whether it be pvp or pve, we can be purely dominate (like we used to be), but are gear dependant much like MS wars.

As a pally with roughly 80 days played, most of which were spent pvping as ret at 60 preBC, i can say that i gained a TON of my pvp abilities from then. With 60 n 70 being much different, ive adapted to the new style of play from other classes as well as my own, something others prolly have not done. The keys to being a RET that can be one of those 'needle in a hay stack' pallies is to have the right build and the right gear... not nub warrior gear, and ofc the most important, SKILL. I'm sure with enough practice, everyone can get there soon enough, but yea, too many bad ones to ruin the rep of all the good ones.

As far as ur details on our abilities, im sure you were over exaggerating but yes, we do have great pvp talents... We just have to use them! A pally that knows what to do can beat a war with equal or better gear NP... i know i have =P

For all of you future ret pallies, keep on hittin those BG's and adapt! Change your gear accordingly to play ur style... if not, u'll stay nub forever. GL

lol dude i'm not exaggerating. Warriors would be obsolete only if we didnt have is MS, the ability to clear a gap, a longer burst chain, and an Aoe CC. Pass that however you guys were very helpful in helping me find out why good Ret Pallys are rare. So could anybody here give me a stratergy for my ret pally, basically so far i just been doing the same shit I do on my warrior ( rush in and start jumping around to give caster hell) is there any more efficent strats?

hello you guy's i got a lvl 59 pally allmost full ret pally and i own in bg's @ every class 1 on 1 , 1 on 2 and 1 on 3
(whit non healing class) , and i am used to play whit a char whit pet's hunter and lock , but i LOVE me pally almost unstoppable in every way and whit some pvp pot's you can give that bit extra ruination to you'r opponent, and i am not a pro in melee class and don't have that supurior gear, i am just a PALADIN.

my build => http://eu.wowarmory.com/character-talents.xml?r=Bloodhoof&n=Vlijmscherp

well i play a 64 pally ret/pro spec and i own in pvp .

Vindication doesn't change anything except what his health bar looks like, in that case. If he had 1500 health (for example), you bring him down to 85% (1275 health), then vindication procs, although it looks like he's back at 100, he still only has 1275 health.

You forget that once vidication wears off, they dont have that 15% HP. PLUS that 15% reduction is to ALL STATS, not just STM. This means that if u face a war, he will have a 15% reduction in AP from his STR (not AP), a 15% reduction in CRIT from AGIL (not crit rating), etc. For casters? If they already have low hp, wouldnt 15% less, 85% in total = PWN?

Praetor has right you guy's are freaking retry pallys are devestating and yes you will die faster then a shokadin or protpally , but the dmg you do + you'r debuff you hit ppl hard so hard and so mutch that you WILL make a different's in bg'ss trust me, even healer's don't have alot chance just nuke you'r target like this.

start whit => seal of command , crusader strike, judgement, seal of command, repentance, crusader strike  => PWND
and hif he/she survife this chain dmg then  seal of command
and he is for sure killed, they don't have any chance work's for almost every class and the fight is like a 10 to 15 sec fighting.

call me noob, call me a retart maybe but this way works for me every time, and whit holly pally whit me, mmmm do you rlly want know ??

Well u asked to be called a 'retart' so yea, ur a retart. SoC, CS, JoC, Repent, CS = dead? Damn u must be fighting some nubs in ur BG's... or a lvl 39 fighting lvl 30's. First off, if u havnt done so already, go lvl to 70. Then after u play ret at 70 and attain some gear... wait a few weeks/months n then come back to post that comment. I say this because at 70, the 4/5 shot u listed is less common then u think. Sure this is possible, even 2 shotting. But the likelyhood that there will be a clothy (takes the most dmg) with very low hp and not paying attn... with NO resil is not that common. And if u do find one, they are too stupid to play smart. For example, if u see a mage with 6-7k (easliy 2 shotted), but with no bubble(s) and uses blink on a repent, yes, they deserve to be 2 shotted. If its a lock, with all their stam, i doubt it would only take a few shots to bring them down. Maybe its just our server/Battlegroup? Almost everyone i see is in minimum of s1 gear. This means a decent amt of resilence... which = less crit, less dmg from crits. And as ret being a burst dmg dealer, from crits, this sux ass. And if youre referring to 2-4 shotting guys with 1/2 life, or have other ppl hitting them, then GG.

Also, u listed repent in the mix of ur CS's... This (IMO) should only be used in specific instances, such as healing, running away, or CC'ing. With the recent nerf in SD and the next one coming in 2.4, the extra chance to double dmg on a stun judgement is almost useless unless ur 'nuking'... but the CD is not worth taking for that extra bit of dmg. Also, if someones repented, ANY dmg will break the stun... which means u will NOT gain that double dmg chance on judgement.

ok ok but like i told you guy's befor is that me pally is my first melee class and is low lvl maybe ok i agree and @ lvl 70 i go fo shokadin also and i am aware of that but @ the moment they still need to have like an army to kill me you need to admit pally 59 on bg's it owns as retry you can't do nothing wrong whit ya skills, so im rlly noob whit tis class still i kill like i maniak, btw maybe a stupid questin if i wanne be a shokadin kan i wear cloth for the spelldmg or what do i need to do, still need to do 10 lvl. ???

leveled an ally pally a while back full ret only up to 53.. quit playing a few months..

fast forward , made a blood elf pally and im 44 right now - im normally top 5dmg in bg overall (normally twink or two and lock/rogue)

running instances i'm right there with the locks

as i don't have as much experience as the people that posted before...

but..

i'd agree on gear.  right now at my 44, planned some gear and im out hitting my 53.

learn how to play it, get the gear = pwn

I currently roll a Retribution Paladin; level 70, in mostly blues, weapon is Despair from Karazhan. T4 pally helm.
I'm rolling a 10/0/51 Ret build, with only 22.67% crit and ~1250AP.
Now, I'm pretty shittily geared atm, But I know what I'm doing. Usually top KB's in BGs, and I generally top/come 2nd in damage in instances.
Plus, I give group members +2% damage a full range of GOOD buffs, and a few heals/bubbles around the place.
Yet, us raiding/pvp Ret Paladins are a rare breed.


[10/0/51 is my Pvp/Raid spec, mostly raid w/ a few of the PvP talents thrown in for when Maiden pewpews me]
Anyways,

Good luck out there,
and may the Light be with you.


Go kick some ass!




Tobio, 70 Retadin - Caelstrasz [Oceanic]

Respoinding to why I think most Ret Pallies are noobs:

A lot of people, including myself, choose a paladin as their first serious character.

I remember back when MC was serious buisiness... I was meleeing molten giants with my 2her and seal of righteousness blazin. "No, you're a healer".

Maybe it's the mentality of many of the types of people we consider to be shitty at video games that make them want to roll a Ret pally. Selfishness has often been an issue - I recall back in my low level days other ret pallies would roll on hunter mail and rogue leather over those other classes. I've also noticed traits such as rebeliousness and arrogance from the scrub retadins.

My guild hates ret paladins, so I rolled one for raiding. I'm a seasoned raider - I know kara thru mag very well, and guess what... I'm not that bad. On my very first kara I was second on DPS behind an epic'd out moonkin. The spec. itself isn't the problem - it's the fact that most people who choose it are emo kids/scrubs. I hope this gives you some insight.

And this is why I chose my paladin's name.
Emoretpally - (70)
5/11/45
Blood Furnace

I am new to WoW coming off other MMo's an I have a friend who urged me to play this game. Before i went in here blind i looked at all the classes , races, etc. an felt that being a Blood Elf was a fit for me. SO im a Pally and decided to Ret it out  found out that i was pwning most players in a PvP situation and in BG's i was making a huge impact on slaying lvls 3 or 5 higher than me with considerable ease. My drawbacks though were running out of mana super quick . so i flipped the script an went Holy, found out i could heal myself at a huge amount but not quite the punch  as i did before when i was Ret. So i figured " why not go Half an half....or like 20/0/41? but like i said i have yet to hit 70 now...currently im 45 an i wanted some insight if that would be a lethal combination having Holy and  Ret (15/0/46)?
could i be even more deadly?

Once you hit 70, and gain some experience in how to play a pally, you will realize that gearing a pally is f'd up. As you are aware, we have 3 trees. All 3 trees are gear dependent, makin you tough/weak if you do/dont have the right stats. By goin 20/0/41, its not too terrible. Its not ideal thats for sure, but i have seen some successful ret's in PVP that have used that sort of build. Now b4 you go and respec to that spec, i do wanna say that these couple pallies were also very well geared. W/o proper gear, this spec will make u medicore at best. Subbing out str/crit gear with int/+heal gear will cause ur dps to take a huge hit. Minimal +heal/crit gear will cause ur heals to still be weak. Get the drift? If your main concern is to lvl, and to lvl quick... you have to ask urself 1 question first. Are you a solo quester? or a group instancer. If you go holy or prot, yes the obvious reasoning behind that will be to instance more so than quest. When not instancing, u will still be able to complete solo quests, but it will stall ur time a bit vs a more dps spec. If you enjoy quests and like to do things urself... go RET. Although you may run out of mana quick, the time for u to drink and bring that mana back up is also very quick. Look at it as a kills per/min thing instead of a kills per/mana bar. Sure it will be tougher to get into groups, but it will be just as tough as solo'ing as holy/prot (not so tough).

Look up any guides. Almost all of them will tell you that questing will give you the most xp per hour basis. And to do quests the fastest way possible, you need some dmg.

I play a 70 ret pally with Gladiator's Decapitator as a weapon and the S1 Gloves and Shoulders, I have 1548 atk power. Ret pallies are made to own as many ppl as posible in a short amount of time in BGs, when I bust out the Avenging Wrath and Seal of Blood I can take out a fully geared caster in like 3 hits. the only thing i can't utterly clobber to dust in under 10 hits is anything with a sheild. but hey No one can do that. The reason I think and hear there are so few of us out there is that well, no reason, we are unpopular so since we can't get arena teams at the snap of our fingers people say "screw you I want the healadin" when i can beat the living crap out of a healadin in 20 secconds max. Ret pallies UNITE



~~Dennador lv 70 ret pally ~ Antonidas

I play a 70 ret pally with Gladiator's Decapitator as a weapon and the S1 Gloves and Shoulders, I have 1548 atk power. Ret pallies are made to own as many ppl as posible in a short amount of time in BGs, when I bust out the Avenging Wrath and Seal of Blood I can take out a fully geared caster in like 3 hits. the only thing i can't utterly clobber to dust in under 10 hits is anything with a sheild. but hey No one can do that. The reason I think and hear there are so few of us out there is that well, no reason, we are unpopular so since we can't get arena teams at the snap of our fingers people say "screw you I want the healadin" when i can beat the living crap out of a healadin in 20 secconds max. Ret pallies UNITE



~~Dennador lv 70 ret pally ~ Antonidas

REtpally!! Lord i'm going to get flamed.. I've read so many posts i'm dizzy. NO where have I seen a beginners advice on HOW to play a pally.! I've just read the prev post when he states using  soc,cs.judge,soc,rep,cs. Well now...so as a lvling ret pally what IS the correct way? What auras do we use?We can lvl as far as me to outlands and STILL have no clue because of no or bad advice. I KNOW theres plenty like me out there. SO, ANY advice would be helpful. ok..flame me now.

If you are wondering what aura to use, that is easy... If your ret then use sanctity. + damage output is what you want. You are a mele DPS class. Get in their face and smash it off with your big 2h mace... If that is what you use (I personaly use a 2h sword.) It was a drop in a heroic and it has served me well... Quantum Blade I threw savagry on it and not its pretty...

Playing ret isnt that difficult guys... We dont have that many offensive abilities so pickin a cast sequence or a cast order is not too complicating. The area where ppl get confused about is gear (stats) and spec's. Heres a few tips for anyone that needs it.

1. sequence - if ur under 70 and still lvling, imp crusader is crucial. The 3% crit increase is very nice and you should definatly use it every chance you get. 3% increased crit chance = about 3% dmg increase... remember that. You should always start out by judging ur mob with JoCru (preferably b4 u get within melee range) then seal up with SoC. When u get in range, the first thing to do is use CS. After that, judge ur SoC and reseal SoC, and repeat when ur CD's get up... thats pretty much it, simple right? The part that gets a lil more "experience" oriented is the timing of ur HoJ, repent, and ur other seals/blessings. Hoj and repent should only be used in situations where u need that extra time. Whether its for healing or for a burst, its all situational. I cant really explain when to use them, it will come to u in time. Just remember they both have 1 min CD's so dont blow them and go "oh shit" later when u do need them. And dont forget to use Sanct aura... the increase in dmg is much better than dmg reduction from armor. I mean we are a DPS spec after all.

2. Gear n stats - The preBC ret had good amts of caster stats such as SD, Int, spl crit, etc. Since then, we've transformed into a almost all melee class. With these changes made (to help our "dps"), you need to gear differently to take advantage of the new play style. STR and Crit will be the 2 most important stats for a ret. AP is the biggest factor since we need to be able to hit hard... and crit is the 2nd most since we are a "burst dps" class after all. After these 2 catagories are satisfied, you move on to INT. W/o mana, a pally is almost worthless. If u notice that ur running out of mana too fast during fights, replace a few "Warrior pieces" with some pally ones. In most cases, the pally plate has almost the same amt of STR that u will find on war pieces so theres no reason to give up the INT for a few extra STR and crit. Just make sure to only judge when u have mana to spare, and stop judging when u get low. Also remember that STR = 2 AP. If you find a piece of gear with 10 STR and another with 20 AP, the 10 STR will be best. With pts into Devine Strength, all the STR you have becomes increased... so only pick AP if u are limited in choices.

3. spec - Very important. Some of u spec to help keep u alive longer. Some spec to be both pvp and pve. By doin this, you basically lose ur "higest potential" dps. For ie, theres really no reason to go ret w/ pts into prot for extra armor and defensive stats. By doing so, your losing pts that can be spent on dps talents. The way i see it is that the faster the mob(s) go down, the faster i can drink. And with the amt of mana a ret pally has, is drinking such a long downtime? I didnt think so... remember, if u take 10 secs longer to kill a a mob cuz of healing or cuz of spec, thats 10 secs of drinking you could have done and already started on the next mob. For early lvls, you shud only put pts into ret and maximize every dps talent and respec later on when u lvl higher and gain more AP. As for pickin up pvp talents for pve, why waste pts? Alot of low lvl players pick up Eye for an Eye for some reason, same as Pursuit of justice. Why do u need a chance to reflect a % of dmg to a caster that u got critted by? Why do u need that extra 15% run spd increase? Are either of these 2 talents (5 pts) gonna help you lvl faster? Sure dmg from E4E is nice, but to get that over 2h spec or imp Sant aura is almost stupid. Specially if ur not a higher lvl that have a few more pts to spend. And 15% spd increase? Why not more dmg? Theres no reason why u need more spd to kill in PVE.. this is purely a PVP talent. If ur lvling, or not pvping, these 3 pts can be spent elsewhere.

If anyone is lvling ret from 1-70 and needs a lil guidance or help on choosing which talents to get and the order, feel free to copy below. I dont have a pally im currently lvlin since im content with my lvl 1 twink ret, but i am helpin the GF lvl her ret (at 32 atm) and shes enjoying the spec/pt distribution as well as her dmg from it.


Respec at either lvl 42 or 52 to swap out Benediction with Imp Might. The reason why i chose benediction at the lower lvls is cuz the 20% boost is very minimal at early lvls. Heres the calcs for Imp BoM:

Once you hit 64, you can pretty much choose wat u wanna do. If u want more pvp, u get PoJ and E4E. If u want pve, u get Fanaticism. 5/8/48 Spec - maximizes AP/DMG. Hope this helps

I am a ret Pally and I pwn at PvP, always have the most damage and most kills, but a lot of times in PvE, no matter how good a ret pally is, there DPS isnt that good. I read on a website (www.tentonhammer.com/node/26186) that Retribution paladins actually do have good dps, but aren't supposed to be at the top of the DPS meter, dmg meter, etc. because rather they are in between DPS, and damage dealt, but idk you can ask the guy that wrote that.

The reason why a RET has a harder time to dps in PVE is because we are a crit and burst dps class. Although this is great for pvp, its a downfall to pve. Bursting on a mob being tanked will give u massive hits of aggro, more often than not, if you dont wait for the proper aggro generated by the tank, you will pull with ur first burst right off the bat. This waiting lowers our dmg and the higher lvl mobs lowers our dps. The thing you have to also realize is that any class wielding a 2h wep will not do great dps in pve. If it takes you 3.6+ secs to swing, 1 miss will reduce ur dps by a ton. For DW'ers, the weps are much faster and get in more swings. If they miss, that small % of dmg becomes very little. For example, do you ever see a arms war or a 2h enhance sham in raids? Not as much as a DW enhance or a fury war right?

yea definately thanks the the pointer.

I saw the topics are about retribution paladins (my god I said paladin not pally and retribution not ret..:P). ok joke passed, I looked on my pally gears and Im not sure about them. I think, I,ve missed something but I can't find.

Maybe its me who are crazy but if some experienced player can watch my character on armory and comment my paladins, It would be appreciated greatly.

Name: Galdorij  no need to talk about server because Im the only one with this ugly name..:P

GOODBYE TO MY PROT BUILD...*cries*
Well for now anyways.

SO the other day I respeced to RET so I can start doing more end game.(at the recomendation of my guild)

I now understand the appeal to it. I was blown away with the dmg I was doing. I do need help with my build.

http://www.wowarmory.com/character-talents.xml?r=The+Venture+Co&n=Thorus

I know that I dont have the right weapon as of now but thats what I switched to before I logged. I also have the APexis axe and the oath keeper both of which I am currently leveling up to 350. Most of my gear is still geared towards prot and I am working on the switch.

I welcome all recomendations and advice.. please post build links

http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/classes/paladin/talents.html?50000000000000000000503201000000000 00000002523005100033125331051
How is this build for RET?

well its basically the same build as what i posted. The only difference is that you have benediction maxed, vs imp BoM.

Its fine either way, but you just have to make sure that you understand that the amt of mana you'll save from benediction is based on how often you judge ur mob. Since most of the time, all you will be doing is judging SoCru, then SoC, JoC, etc... the amt you save is not much. If you were to judge 7 times, seal up with SoC 7 times (60 sec/ 8 sec CD) every minute, you'll save roughly around 600 mana (depending on how much mana you have). If u dont judge every time, maybe just 2 or 3 times per min, ur lookin at saving 200 mana.

Now with Sanctified Judgement, this number changes again. Since the amt of mana returned is based on the amt of mana used, the lower mana used w/ benediction will return a smaller amt than w/o benediction. Here's a table that shows these calcs. If theyre not correct, pls feel free to correct me.

Benediction @ 15%

SEAL	MP w/o	MP w/	DIF
SoCru	210	178.5	31.5
SoC	280	238	42
SoL	280	238	42
SoW	270	229.5	40.5
Judgement	5%	4.25%	0.75%

Sanctified Judgement (mana returned)

w/o Bene	w/ Bene	DIF
168	142.8	25.2
224	190.4	33.6
224	190.4	33.6
216	183.6	32.4

Benediction and Sanctified Judgement

SEAL	MP w/o	MP w/	Net MP w/o	Net MP w/	DIF
SoCru	210	178.5	42	35.7	6.3
SoC	280	238	56	47.6	8.4
SoL	280	238	56	47.6	8.4
SoW	270	229.5	54	45.9	8.1

As you can see, you dont save much mana... but it is some. The additional dps you get from Imp BoM isnt that much either, we're talkin about 1-4 additional DPS. Either way, id rather take the extra dps than the minor mana saved from benediction.

DOnt you think going hybrid for pvp is good getting ret til soc and few more crits and increase crit dmg then maybe getting up to reckoning on prot and 5 int and strength on holy tree if  anyone has ever tried a build similar to that please post thanks.

The Ret tree has more than just SoC. You forget that one of the main reasons why we go RET is becuz of dps. W/o goin into far ret (41 pts), you wont be picking up CS, Vengence, 2h wep, Sanct aura, and repent. Even if you were to go 11 pts to pick up SoC, how are pts being spent to prot or holy goin to help you dps someone down? 5 pts in STR is part of a common ret build... 5 pts in INT is for nubs. The 10% increase sounds great, but if u only have 200 INT, how is the 20 int bonus even worth 5 pts?

As for reck, this has been tried numerous times... each time results in a big FAIL. I duno whether your new to the game or still stuck in the old days but reck was only good at one time. Back when the game was still fresh, it was somewhat of a charge type of ability. You get crit on and u log in a pt, up to a max of 5. Once you swing, it procs ur pts stored to also swing. This meant that you could basically get 6 swings, all being able to proc a SoC... which was lethal. After a nerf, as well as the past XPac, reck is pretty much a gay useless talent... at least for ret. We're talkin about a 10% to proc, and an extra swing per swing for 8 secs. This is roughly 2-3 swings on a 3.6+ wep. Sure it sounds great, but w/o pts to build ur dps up thru the ret tree, will the weak reck hits even match what you lose just from overall white dmg?

As i said before, its been tried numerous times (not by me, im not wasting money to try something i have no faith in), but if u wanna go try it out, make sure u come back to give feedback.

hey retpally, i was lookin at your spec for ret and was wondering what the use for redoubt is. (unless its only to use points to get to prec). As ive seen in most cases i believe ret pallys tend to use a 2hander the 5 points into a block talent seems kinda useless. thx in advance for any info.

I am a level 42 pallie trying to go ret if you or any one has any advice i`d be glad to hear it i am new to the game all together and have no help so advice from fellow wow junkies is an asset plzz heal me , I love seeing guys arr then destroy  thing  pallies can take a hell of a beating and still hang on but pvp  not really from what i see we are team material

I am a level 42 pallie trying to go ret if you or any one has any advice i`d be glad to hear it i am new to the game all together and have no help so advice from fellow wow junkies is an asset plzz heal me , I love seeing guys arr then destroy  thing  pallies can take a hell of a beating and still hang on but pvp  not really from what i see we are team material