Hi, is
http://www.wow-europe.com/en/info/basics/talents/paladin/talents.html?0500000000000000000055005033500021021215510500500000000000000000
anything good for tanking??

What kind of gear is best or tankadins. and what weapons,swords or axes or maces?

Well best gear is your T4/5/6 gear. Best weapons, I use the suneater with + 40SD. Works good.

Ty for the help, would you fill out your talent tree or put some in to holy or ret??. and on the gear part do you need a lot of stam.

Wow...

Please ignore ALL that those morons just said...

They have you confused with a warrior...
Divine Strength??  Why in hell would they want you to take that.
White damage (Strength)is COMPLETELY USELESS to stack for a tankadin.  The miniscule increase to block is far outweighed by any other stats you could get.(stam)

Tankadins need spell damage (around 250 more the merrier as this is directly related to your threat)
490 defense (to be un-crittable by a lvl 73 mob)
and  102.4% avoidance (to be uncrushable)

crit  = 200% normal damage
crush = 150% normal damage

12K+ health (again...the more the merrier)
5.5 K mana is plenty.. your ability, spiritual attunement, provides all the mana you need.(if not just judge wizdom)

use seal of righteousness to help with aggro...

Pull with avenger's shield.

Slam down concecrate...  now all the mobs hate you and the DPS'ers can do their thing.



Seal of comand is for a Ret Pally... 1H specialization NEEDS to be maxxed.

http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=sZVhtIx0dMgqtVbx 

is a good tankadin spec.


The suneater is for warriors and is no good for a pally...  grab Crystalforged Sword from AH  or Continuum Blade from Cavern of Time Rep vendor... and put +40 Spell damage on either one.(or PVP to get the gladiator's gavel and put the +40 on that)

Reckoning becomes useless as you gear up.. more avoidance= less reckoning.. and on certain fights... Prince.. reckoning can kill you when prince parries and you get 3 hits in 4 sec.


Try out that spec..

Hope this helps

Valundar
70 BE Paladin
Blackwing Lair

Thanks for the help, would it madder but i will have a holy pali running with me, so will i be able to take more mobs

I cant agree with Val more. STR does almost CRAP to a tankadin... The % increase is very minimal (since prot pallies dont stack str) and so is the blk u get from it. #1 stat to attain for a tankadin? STAM. This is however, AFTER you reach ur uncrush/uncrit status.

thanks for making sense Valundar, i thot i was missing something by what those others said, then i read your post & realized i wasn't crazy. in fact i learned some good ideas.  thx again.

how about Improved Hammer of Justice for PvP? it can help keep hunters & casters from gaining distance (if BoFreedom is on cooldown or u run out of reagents) and can interrupt spell casting.  this is what i aim for:
http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/classes/paladin/talents.html?00000000000000000000053051335030110 25215510500500000000000000000

Don't listen to that reckoning bs. Reckoning is only good for leveling, once u get near 102.6% avoidance u wont get hit enough for it to be of any use. try my spec.
http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/classes/paladin/talents.html?0000000000000000000005305133500001025215510520500020000000000000

Hi i was wonderin ive just switched 2 tankidin and i was wondering what Protect gear i should start of with...Im level 70 and i was wonderin can u link me Good tanking gear....I have full retri PvP set and i have arena Gloves ty

Ok, so I can't agree more with Valundar. I am building a tankadin, and have him up to lvl 61. I've noted that everyone seems to say that by the time you hit lvl 70 devotion aura means nothing since the extra armor will insignificant by then, so there is no use wasting the skill points on improving it. I've also heard others say that upping skill points in RET to get improved retribution aura is worthless because the added spell damage is quite insignificant as well. Concentration aura seems to flat out blow, since someone else will be healing me and the rest of my abilities are instant casts.

So it leads to one very interesting question: WHAT F-ing AURA should i be using as a high level tankadin? It makes sense to improve one of them (best bang for the buck) and it doesn't make any sense to not have one aura active since they cost nothing to have active.

  opinions?

Ret aura!!!

The 24 damage from getting hit is another way for you to gain more agro. It is simple... more yellow damage = more threat = raid/ group lives.

ret aura is good in some cases,but if you can deal without the bonuses from kings, or BoW, then try blessing of sanctuary, which works same as ret aura, but more damage done, + less damage taken.

Val, i looked over your shown spec and i like it but i'm having trouble wondering if Precision and Improved Judgement would really be the best out of the choices left?

Hey, im a 70 BE pally, and ive resently been speced retrobution. Ive been thinking of respecing to prot b/c its been hard geting groups b/c i cant CC. So i was wondersing, what does a pally tank need? tons of stam? lots of spell dmg? what? im planning on using Val's layout. what are the best gems to socket with?

Thanks,
Avendar of Suramar

The purpose of Precision and imp judgement is to increase threat output.

The more you hit(precision) the more that SoR hits... increasing threat.

The faster you can judge... the more threat you can output.

It is all about keeping the big uglies off your squishy clothies.


Valundar
70 BE Paladin
Blackwing Lair

A little something for non-endgame paladin tanks: you don't need or even want to be uncrushable.  If you get so that you barely take damage then you'll never need heals.  Easy for your healer but crap for you.  You'll never get heals then you'll run yourself right oom and lose that sweet sweet aggro.  The uncrushable factor comes into play during raids and above 70 instances to simply keep you alive when gruul is slapping you for 7k or so...  Growing up you'll need spelldamage and stamina top notch.

I submit this build for consideration as well.

http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=sZV0xIx0dggqtVox

Note that this build includes reckoning.

You exchange precision, kings, and 1 point in imp judgement for reckoning.

Not sure how this would effect the threat generation... 


Any theorycrafters on???

Valundar
70 BE Paladin
Blackwing Lair

Thank you for the help Val, i had just wanted to make sure if precision was worth it, another thing though is that i do not see much of a purpose to imp judgement is that if i spammed judgements i would run out of mana to fast and i also happen to like vindication even though it does not work on most bosses it would seem like a great way to clear some of the mobs faster.

After looking at some of VAl's build, i will admit that I can see the flaw's in mine.  I find it hard spending the five points for Ardent Defender though.  If you are in a group with a healer and doing a good job tanking, why is your health below 35%?  Seems like a waste to me.  It would be beneficial before you hit 70 and are solo. 

Also, if threat is what you want and most is generated by yellow (holy/spell) damage, wouldn't it be a good idea to put points into Improved Seal of Rightousness?  This will generate an additional 15% holy damage plus in you have judged seal of the crusader then it's even more.  So the threat incerase is by almost 30% from Improved Seal of Rightousness.  Seems well worth the points.  To get there put the talent points into Divine Intelect as tankadins are mana hungry anyway even with BoW up. 

A key thing to drawing threat is to first activate seal of the crusader, then judge the target.  From there use seal of rightousness, consecration, and whatever other holy spells you have to deal damage.  this increases the holy damage done by a lot. 

I've noticed SoR does about 70% more holy damage and consecrate does about the same.  other things are about a 20% increase.  Seal of the Crusader judged will help out a lot.  check out this build to go with it.

http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=sVVZVhtIx0dMgotVb

Let me know what you think.

After looking at some of VAl's build, i will admit that I can see the flaw's in mine.  I find it hard spending the five points for Ardent Defender though.  If you are in a group with a healer and doing a good job tanking, why is your health below 35%?  Seems like a waste to me.  It would be beneficial before you hit 70 and are solo. 

Also, if threat is what you want and most is generated by yellow (holy/spell) damage, wouldn't it be a good idea to put points into Improved Seal of Rightousness?  This will generate an additional 15% holy damage plus in you have judged seal of the crusader then it's even more.  So the threat incerase is by almost 30% from Improved Seal of Rightousness.  Seems well worth the points.  To get there put the talent points into Divine Intelect as tankadins are mana hungry anyway even with BoW up. 

A key thing to drawing threat is to first activate seal of the crusader, then judge the target.  From there use seal of rightousness, consecration, and whatever other holy spells you have to deal damage.  this increases the holy damage done by a lot. 

I've noticed SoR does about 70% more holy damage and consecrate does about the same.  other things are about a 20% increase.  Seal of the Crusader judged will help out a lot.  check out this build to go with it.

http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=sVVZVhtIx0dMgotVb

Let me know what you think.

you'll want Ardent defender.  Trust me.  If you'r healer knows how to handle a paladin tank (most don't so you might have to give them a heads up) they'll let you drop a lil lower than they would a warrior so that when they heal you you get more mana from it.  Ardent Defender acts like a shock absorber allowing you to take big hits and lots of them without winding up dead.  Believe me, you will be below 35% health a LOT more than you think and an additional 30% in damage reduction is paramount. 

You will want ardet defender.
It helps a TON.
When a boss can with 1 blow take you down below 35%, incedental damage can kill ya... unless ardent defender is there to save you.

As for imp SoR... why yes that would give you a threat bonus...problem is,.. where are you going to pull 10 points from?  Besides the bonus wouldn't be as large as you'd think.
Remember most of pallies danage comes from reflective damage. OR concecration.
It would be an increase.. but I don't believe it is worth what you would have to give up to get it.

Valundar
70 BE Paladin
Blackwing Lair

yea Imp SoR is ok for grinding up to 70 but if you're set on doing instances and whatnot don't bother
you'll be using blood/vengence anyway

the judgements from those will give you way more damage/threat than a puny SoR judgement and more than likely pull back anyone you're loosing on aggro. 

The best part of having two paladins runnign together is the extra blessings/judgments/auras you get.  It basically means that you can have your retribution aura on for tanking and have another aura on for either resistance/spell interrupt or at worst some extra armour.  It also helps to have two plate wearing, bubble popping rezers in your group.  Pallys have an ability to reduce their threat as well so it makes a good team for tank/healer pair.

OK, 1 thing I've been wondering, how do you know what your avoidance rating is? on my character's defenses tab i have dodge, parry and block.

yes i actually thought about taking out ardent defender but after seeing how low i drop sometimes ya it has saved my ass more than a few times :)

I have no greenys btw accept a gay ass trink im trying to replace with Moroes lucky pocket watch ...pimpin for a tank 300 dodge rating = much love :)









Drayonis
70 Human Paladin
Gurubashi

ROFL, almost exact as mine, but mine does a bit more dmg, i am MAin Tank and do some dmg, more than regular Prot Pallys

http://www.wow-europe.com/en/info/basics/talents/paladin/talents.html?050000000000000000005500503350 0021021215510500500000000000000000#none

Even with a good healer(s) you will drop below 35% health at times.  At that point you are only a hit or two away from death.  It could be from a boss - Phase 2 Prince, Gruul at 13 growths, Lynx during Frenzy, or maybe Nightbane feared the rest of the raid... - or it could be because you pulled most of the hallway in Shattered Halls.  Maybe you meant to and maybe you didn't, but every tenth of a second of life you buy yourself (and your group)is a second that heal could land.

1% more damage from all sources (including reflected damage from HS, Ret Aura, BoSanc?) x 5 points = 5% more threat.  At the point at which you are well beyond worrying about being uncrushable and uncrittable and are worrying about not threat-capping your dps, this stat becomes so much more powerful.  And, perhaps not unintentionally, it is at about the same gear-point that reckoning loses its appeal. 

OK, this is probably a n00b question, but I'll give it a shot. Why not pull Anticipation? You can get plenty of gear that cranks up defense skill. I'm really anxious to plug those 5 points into Divine Intelligence (if not 5, then at least 1 or 2 points). And what's so good about Defense skill anyways? (seriously, I don't know)

Please tell me you are kidding?

Why oh why would you take points from defense to intellect?

When you are tanking  you are gettin smashed by the baddies.

When you are gettin smashed by baddies.. your healers are healing you.

When you receive heals... your mana pool goes up.

You should have more than enough mana for each encounter.

Points in Divine Int.. are WASTED points.

That defense rating skill allows you more leeway in gear to stack stamina. 

if you remove it you will have to re-gem to compensate for the lost avoidance.

So I guess the question you ahve to ask yourself is:

Do you think Int is better than Stam for a tank?

Valundar
70 BE Paladin
Blackwing Lair

I like what yer saying here... but how come alll good prot talent set ups that i see avoid imp devo aura? what is the logic behind it... and plz no one call me a noob lol.

From Wowwiki:


The chances are good that you will not often be running devo anyway, but retribution - or for magical fights, a resist aura.

Redoubt, on the other hand, while unreliable, does scale and thus adds more survivability.  So as you have to have five points in one or the other, redoubt is considered the better expenditure of points.

Hope that helps :) 

Ok consider me new to tanking completely i get what ur saying but what is avoidence and what does it do???

39 paladin
Patriarch

First i will answer RameNoodle`s question just above.

Avoidance prevents the mob from doing `crushing blows` as of clothies or low defense classes, you will be getting these crushing blows quiet often, it can be seen from your combat log.
crushing blows deal much more damage than a normal attack does and it will be a pain to get crushing blow`d multiple time consecutively :) however getting 102.4% avoidance is quite difficult unless you get as high as Zul`Aman or Serpent Shrine Cavern or The Eye. however having a decent amount of avoidance, you won`t likely be crushed and you won`t be crushed multiple times this way.

i hope i answered your question :)

Csin
Bloodscalp (US)
70 Paladin - Holy/Prot/Ret
41/20/0
0/44/17
5/11/45

***despite the fact this post is quite old, i'm postig this for people who may need help in the future***

Valundar pointed out many things up there which should help you for the most part.
The only thing i didn't like about his comment is how he wrote few things that is quite random to say...such as 250 Spell damage? Pallies can tank with almost no spell damage bonus (eventhough that shouldn't be the case!) if the dps in the group respect the threat and know how the control their aggro. (of course having spell damage will help aload since it is directly related to tankadins threat as you mentioned above).

I use about 500 spell damage in my tanking gear, but with eager players who continuesly tries to rip the aggro table and don't respect the tank threat, will pull aggro off you even with salvation. Those are players who won't likely be loved in 25 mans.
i.e. pally got less SD? give him some time to build aggro, (like 10 seconds) if the pally got lot of SD? you should be able to dps after waitig like 2-3 seconds w/o a misdirect from a hunter.

Anyway i will be helping as far as i can help.

Few things you have to understand as a tankadin. (that aren't answered clearly in the post)
==Talent points - Single target or AoE?==
This will depend on which 'spec' tankadin you are trying to make. It will be choice between AoE tank or Single target tank. For this portion, i suggest going as an AoE tankadin build let the warrior/druid do the single target in raids. In 25 mans, 99% of time, tankadins will be dealing with targets that aren't the primary dps target or an aoe pulls. This is because pallies gain major part of their threat through holy shield, which needs the target to be hittig on the pally and pally to be blocking the attacks returning holy damage. This is the reason why pallies love pulling 2-3 mobs at a time instead of one.

Few mandatory talents in protection tree are redout, Precision, Armor, Improved Righteous Fury, Holy shield, etc.
and from retribution tree, (this is AoE build!!)
a) 'Benediction' is great for mana conservation even if you are gettig mana from heals.
b) 'Parry' is great for tankadin, it helps you raise avoidance.
c) 'Improved judgement' definitely! questioning this is like telling me i want to reroll classes.
d) ++At this point you can go 'Improved Seal of Crusader' or 'Pursuit of justice'. i go for Poj. SoC can be done by ret pally pretty much.++
e) Go for Improved 'retribution aura'. this helps alot on getting threat quickly. it's inffective for range mobs but still great when you tank meele (tested it)


Answering replies above
erikwin1 ==> "how about Improved Hammer of Justice for PvP?"
***gg tankadin in PvP??? however if you are making a healadin or retadin, yes there are builds that put points in imporved hammer of justice.

atepanubis ==> "Don't listen to that reckoning bs. Reckoning is only good for leveling"
***Reckoning sucks for leveling now...go Retribution tree. Seal of command is far better than reckoning in leveling (seal of righteous is great as well) This is because unlike the past times, reckoning cannot multiproc any seals...damn!

QzQ ==> "5/44/12 i think would be better but thats just my opinion"
***i don't know where that 5 points in holy spec you have spent but if it is strength, we said above it sucks, if it is intel, as in group you should be getting mana already. 12 points in ret is alright it's probably benediction, parry, imp.judge.
but again that 5 points in holy is a waste.

themistocleez ==> "improved retribution aura is worthless because the added spell damage is quite insignificant as well"
***dunno who told you ret aura sucks...with RF, it gives significant threatout put, and as i stated above, i tested it.

sapo74 ==> "ret aura is good in some cases,but if you can deal without the bonuses from kings, or BoW, then try blessing of sanctuary, which works same as ret aura, but more damage done, + less damage taken."
***GG aura is not blessing you can run with both BoS and ret aura on.

Kougaiji ==> "...if Precision and Improved Judgement would really be the best out of the choices left? "
***Far as i know Seal of righteous is hit rating effected. i.e. if you have hit rating high, your likely chance to miss the mob will decrease and holy damage from SoR give you additional threat just like judgement of righteous. reducing CD of judgement mean you can use more judgements over given time.
Precisely, it reduces your chance to miss from meele(+SoR) from 10% to 7%. forgot the resist % on judgement anyone?

Valundar ==> "You exchange precision, kings, and 1 point in imp judgement for reckoning"
***i will test it soon but i believe tps will be lower like that...

djosephs1s ==> "I find it hard spending the five points for Ardent Defender though. If you are in a group with a healer and doing a good job tanking, why is your health below 35%?  Seems like a waste to me."
*** As in tanking any 25 mans, your health will go below 35% ALOT. This is why alot of tanks in 25mans will go for Commendation of Kaelthas from 3rd boss of heroic magister terrace which gives good stam and can save a raid. (Have it myself and it`s great XD)

djosephs1s ==> "it be a good idea to put points into Improved Seal of Rightousness?"
***for single target tanking i use a build that include this. it's great but i explained above pallies love aoe tanking :)

hawsman2 ==> "but I'll give it a shot. Why not pull Anticipation"
*** lol i know Valundar answered it above but again hawsman2... that's a BIG GG for you! Valundar didn't mentioned it but you see there is this thing in wow, where it says talen point requirement... you see without 5 points in Anticipation... how are you gonna go down the protection talent tree? Stoicm + concentration aura or what? Hoj and blessing of protection? Any of  these combos is a "no no" for tankadins

Pulooka ==> "but how come alll good prot talent set ups that i see avoid imp devo aura? what is the logic behind it... and plz no one call me a noob lol."
*** well Tanneth answered it with wiki knowledge while i was gone but anyway, realisticaly improved devotion gives 300 more armor and that is when it's ACTIVATED. tankadins use retribution aura 99% of time.
btw 300 armor is less than 0.5% less damage taken i.e. if brutalise hit you with offhand with 10k damage, you reduced 50 damage and got 9950 damage only! WOOT!

Csin
Bloodscalp (US)
70 Paladin - Holy/Prot/Ret
41/20/0
0/44/17
5/11/45

Some very good info for a first time prot pally to get off to a good start, i am going to respec from ret to prot myself when i hit 70 so a group of friends and i have a 5 man party to do what ever 5 man raids are out there.

As i have been only looking and grabbing ret gear anytime a quest rewards gear or in a dungeon where i can use the item straight away, i want to know what is sum lvl 70 tanking gear to start out with that is not to hard to farm etc for. Is there any pvp gear that can be a subsitute until you find the required item you want? I would be pretty much starting from scratch when i hit 70 in regards to having gear and what would be the most important stats to incease first? stam and def? I wouldn't think you would have to be uncrushable and uncrit in most 5 man raids but i'm not sure.

Any tip or pointers on 5 man raiding? Should i do a few of the lower instances in the outlands before dive into some of the harder one's and get use to tanking.